Rick Beato on Andy Wallace mixing techniques

[EsquireBoy]

No wonder why so much mainstream music ends up sounding the same.
I've got absolutely nothing against Andy Wallace, who surely is a great professional. But these samples from different records and different bands were almost painful for me to hear, as if they were "packt like sardines in a crush tin box" to paraphrase Radiohead.

 

[buster poser]

Staind, Chevelle, Slipknot, Shinedown... the common denominator there may be mixing. The bigger one for me is that those bands are terrible.

Interesting anyhow, lots of great tips as usual (that snare/hi-hat wash bit = very cool). Love his vids, just a wealth of knowledge.

 

[EsquireBoy]

I was unable to distinguish most samples and associate each one with a particular band, besides the ones from songs I already knew.

 

[losador]

No wonder why so much mainstream music ends up sounding the same.
I've got absolutely nothing against Andy Wallace, who surely is a great professional. But these samples from different records and different bands were almost painful for me to hear, as if they were "packt like sardines in a crush tin box" to paraphrase Radiohead.

A lot of mainstream music does sound the same, but I am not sure how you get to that conclusion from this video..

 

[EsquireBoy]

A lot of mainstream music does sound the same, but I am not sure how you get to that conclusion from this video..

Mostly from the beginning when he analyses the drums: they sound so much the same and occupy such a huge place that it almost sounds like one single big sample of the same record, sometimes even of the same song.

 

[ThermionicScott]

"Every big mixer does this."

I guess the scales have fallen from my eyes! It's always fascinating to learn about these techniques -- and they are no doubt effective -- but I have mixed feelings about them. When I listen to a record, I tend to assume it's the performance of the folks on the cover. If I learn that anonymous studio musicians actually played some of the tracks, or the drums had samples dubbed over them, it feels like a betrayal. Obviously I don't have the same kind of investment in Top 40 songs, or groups like the Monkees where that's an open secret, but the indie/post-punk/alternative stuff I like has more of an implication of authenticity.

 

[EsquireBoy]

"Every big mixer does this."

I guess the scales have fallen from my eyes! It's always fascinating to learn about these techniques -- and they are no doubt effective -- but I have mixed feelings about them. When I listen to a record, I tend to assume it's the performance of the folks on the cover. If I learn that anonymous studio musicians actually played some of the tracks, or the drums had samples dubbed over them, it feels like a betrayal. Obviously I don't have the same kind of investment in Top 40 songs, or groups like the Monkees where that's an open secret, but the indie/post-punk/alternative stuff I like has more of an implication of authenticity.

I totally agree with you. That's one of the reasons why I'm listening to more and more jazz these days: I like nothing more than a minimalist yet great recording where a few mics capture a great live performance in the studio.
And in a more rock style, I like what Steve Albini or Tucker Martine do behind the console.
As much as I love this album, I've always found that Grace by Jeff Buckley was a bit overproduced, even though Andy Wallace's work is quite delicate on this one.

 

[losador]

Interesting.. how about bands who really utilise the studio in their recordings rather than 'play it live and record'? You quoted Radiohead for example in your opening post.. they are a band who have certainly utilised the studio on their records! Though they do have an incredible knack for bringing that to their live shows too..

For me I think this particular video focusses on one particular 'mixer' and shows one of his tricks.. Beato can sometimes fall foul of hyperbole, so I think the whole 'every big mixer' thing needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. It's not like every indie or alternative record in the 90s had the same drum sounds! Also I really don't get the bit about the chorusing on Nevermind - that is surely a production choice, not down to a mix engineer!

 

[EsquireBoy]

Also I really don't get the bit about the chorusing on Nevermind - that is surely a production choice, not down to a mix engineer!

That's quite what I think too, but after watching the video it seems that the use of chorus on everything is a bit of Wallace's trademark too. Maybe that is the reason why they chose him to do the final mix?

how about bands who really utilise the studio in their recordings rather than 'play it live and record'? You quoted Radiohead for example in your opening post.. they are a band who have certainly utilised the studio on their records!

I used to listen a lot to Radiohead and like their creativity into the studio, especially for the Kid A / Amnesiac era. Even though it's not what I like to listen to these days, I still love theirs albums a lot. They used to work hand in hand with Nigel Godrich like the Beatles with George Martin, and when I listen to the music I hear their creativity.
When I listened to the samples in Rick Beato's video, I rather heard the mix engineer's tricks to "bring the music into conformity".

 

[losador]

They used to work hand in hand with Nigel Godrich like the Beatles with George Martin, and when I listen to the music I hear their creativity.
When I listened to the samples in Rick Beato's video, I rather heard the mix engineer's tricks to "bring the music into conformity".

I see what you mean.. I think you nailed it to be honest! Radiohead with Nigel Godrich, Beatles with George Martin etc, these guys were using the studio as an instrument itself, in truly creative ways, whereas what someone like Andy Wallace is doing is making things 'sound good' for wont of a better expression

 

[EsquireBoy]

I see what you mean.. I think you nailed it to be honest! Radiohead with Nigel Godrich, Beatles with George Martin etc, these guys were using the studio as an instrument itself, in truly creative ways, whereas what someone like Andy Wallace is doing is making things 'sound good' for wont of a better expression

Though I do not want to dismiss Andy wallace who certainly knows his craft. It’s just not what I like to hear when I listen to music.

 

[swervinbob]

Watch his video on Brendan O’Brien. Pretty much the same drum sound (especially the snare) on all of the albums he produced/engineered/mixed. All of these guys have their own style.

 

[losador]

Watch his video on Brendan O’Brien. Pretty much the same drum sound (especially the snare) on all of the albums he produced/engineered/mixed. All of these guys have their own style.

Yeah of course, lots of guys have their own 'sound' and bits of equipment they like to use, their own little tricks and techniques etc. I personally find the whole thing fascinating!

 

[swervinbob]

Here is a comparison of Andy Wallace’s and Butch Vig’s mixes for Smells Like Teen Spirit. Wallace’s mix is more...polished? Vig’s is more raw. A couple years later and Vig’s mix might have made it, but Wallace’s was better for radio at the time.

 

[losador]

Here is a comparison of Andy Wallace’s and Butch Vig’s mixes for Smells Like Teen Spirit. Wallace’s mix is more...polished? Vig’s is more raw. A couple years later and Vig’s mix might have made it, but Wallace’s was better for radio at the time.
https://youtu.be/YGjTlmLAE14

Think I need to listen to the whole thing or at least longer clips.. but this is great anyway! I think for this particular song it would have been a smash either way.. the pop charts sure do love crisp drum sounds though.. been that way since the 50s.. go figure!

 

[EsquireBoy]

Here is a comparison of Andy Wallace’s and Butch Vig’s mixes for Smells Like Teen Spirit. Wallace’s mix is more...polished? Vig’s is more raw. A couple years later and Vig’s mix might have made it, but Wallace’s was better for radio at the time.
https://youtu.be/YGjTlmLAE14

Many years ago I was gifted the set of Nevermind with the Butch Vig’s mixes: I agree, they are less polite, even though Vig’s production is quite polite to start with.
With In Utero, Steve Albini’s production is so raw that even with most of the final mixes having been redone before the release, the album still has a sound of its own.

 

[EsquireBoy]

Starting at 7'23", Steve Albini gives a very interesting perspective to what we were talking about in this thread: