Rhythm guitar

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by ottocat, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. ottocat

    ottocat Tele-Meister

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    Do you have recordings I could listen to . A Celtic rock band how cool !!!!
    You "get" the PIPES , Limited range ? I guess as far as key center (ie non chromatic)
    What a cool instrument though. I dig the Ullian pipes also . I'm a rabid Kate Bush fan.
    Her brother Paddy plays Ullian pipes on the KB tunes with pipes . My buddy Pat's Doctor plays Ullian pipes I should ask about approaching him. However you spell Ullian.
     
  2. Ridge runner

    Ridge runner Banned

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    Hey Otto, a good while back I bought this dvd "Learn To Play Django-Style Gypsy Jazz Guitar #1" by Paul Mehling it was the first of 2 dvds,and was expecting some cool Gypsy jazz and it had that but he brought into focus some of the cool backup rhythms that Django's brother would play in their band it was really good. for what it's worth.


    Funny you mention you play fiddle,my rhythm improved a great deal when I started playing rhythm behind my dad's fiddle playing,some of those fiddle tunes Like "Sally Gooden" are hard to hear the chord changes coming!! but playing simple stuff like "Jodie Blone waltz" are really fun to play and puts the old timers on the dance floor,haha.

    Other songs we would play would be like Orange blossom special<---on that one I play and open E chord and you don't have to do the boom,chick,boom,chick.. what I like to do is get this train like sound going by doing this little 16th note pattern going just play A string twice on "1e" play the upper part of the E chord on "&A", then you just alternate to the E string doing the same thing..but when the song goes out of the Intro into A chord you then do the Boom,Chick thang.

    you also mention you had trouble doing the Johny Cash..hmm only one thing to do about that. Play "Folsom prison blues" till you're sick of it!! mute it of course.

    just a few more thoughts about rhythm then I"LL SHUT UP!
    ya know that orginal version of pipeline-not the dickdale version-or the ventures cut on it. I think it may the Surfarries but the one with keyboard solo on it..That guy played killer rhythm!! really tight and mean sounding! didn't mean to write a book but a lot of songs come to mind to help improve rhythm Hendrix songs.SRV's Pride and joy, Cold shot gotta get those muted stabs in there!

    one last thing on waltz tunes I'm not big into Boom,Chick,Chick thing..not sure how to count it but I often do like a Dom,da,da,da,da,Dom,da,da,da,da, on em..sort of like Mr Bo jangles take care.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  3. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Dumdadadada.....I fully understand that more complicated 3/4 time rhythm, rigerunner. ANd...yes, there are great rhythm parts in a lot of the music suggested above in many threads......Hendrix---of course if you are going to study Hendrix's rhythms you might as well go to the heart of that and listen to the fellow HEndrix copped from and that would be Curtis Mayfield right?--- Rhythm---James Brown! Without J.B. there is no agressive r&B/funk thing going on, Django for sure....the list could go on and on.
    My understanding of the OP's 'issue' is that he can't play rhythm. IF someone asked me how to run but they couldn't walk, I wouldn't suggest that they start studying the exercise regime and techniques of a world class sprinter. I would figure they need to walk before they run.....hence my suggestion of the 3 quarter notes per bar approach for that waltz....learning to walk and all.
    A lot of that old jazz is on the beat every beat...simple stuff if you can grab the chords. Rock...you gotta know that C. Berry/Johnny Johnson shuffle---simple....John HOoker has to be studied....basic stuff...and all of this 'simple' stuff can lead to the sublime if one gets the basics down. Country.... hit the root and the 5 with some strums of the chord in between....basic stuff. AFter you can do that and not be 'distracted' by the melody, then some complications in rhythmic patterns will occur. Without thhis firm base, the melody will certainly get lost, right?
    IF someone wanted to learn how to play Western/Swing but couldn't play basic rhythm, we wouldn't tell them as a beginner in 'rhythm guitar' to try to hit every note that Eldon Shamblin played in the Bob Wills' Band, right? Gotta learn the chords and how to play those changes in rhythm, then learn the bass notes....after you learn how to pick/strum/pick/strum in time. AT long last if we work hard, we can do something like what Shamblin did.....everything at once including the melody!!!
    The OP has a problem in that he follows the melody with his ear. IMHO, the best way to get out of that is to---perhaps this will get the point across----PLOD through rhythms and songs deliberately and simply in order to understand in a different way what the music he has been playing is about on a basic level. With his training it shouldn't be hard. Ottocat is obviously a disciplined person. I would think that he has simply never approached rhythm from a very basic point of view.
    BAgpipes??? Bagpipes are about marching much of the time, aren't they? Marching is about basic rhythm....1-2-3-4...on and on. OTtocat, if you have some bagpipe music, put it on the hi-fi, the ipod..whatever....and march around in time. Go dancing??? You can't dance to the notes of the melody. You have to dance in tempo with the song/tune.
    Good luck with it all, Ottocat. NOw, I need to walk over to get a soda...and I have to spit my gum out to do that!! I talk a good game, but I have my own challenges!! (8^)
     
  4. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Much of it is actually in 6 or 3.
    They say, and I have no real way of verifying this but Scots marched in 3 in oder to NOT favor one leg over the other. Thus being able to march longer.

    *You can also 1/2 the 6 and think of it as a big "2".
     
  5. ottocat

    ottocat Tele-Meister

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  6. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I heard that the Scots marched in that manner so as to provoke arguements with more logical thinkers! LOL---just joking around. Don't take it seriously...I probably have some SCot in me, too! What did they do....skip on the and of 3 to break the monotony of one foot in front of the other? :)^) 2 feet against 3 beats....complicated rhythm. How is 'When Johnny Comes Marching Home' written out? Simularly???? I can feel a bagpipe hitting that 'drone' note on every left foot.
    'Makes you feel a little like a military man!"

    Klasaine, come to think of it, one of the songs that I learned in lessons long, long ago was based on the SCottish bagpipe thing. And, yes....although it was written out for me in x/4----probably 2/4----but his theory was weaker than even mine is now--and that isn't very good, there is a 3-beat thing going on in it. I had never thought about it....'SCotty' was the name of the tune.
    Here are the first two measures written in crude tab witht he beats shown above the notes. The ^ indicates a hammeronn/pull of.
    (-1-)---(2-)--(1)-(2)
    -------------------------------------------------------
    5-------7----5^7 5---------------------------------------------
    --6-------7----------------------------------------------
    ----7-------------------------------------------------
    ----------------------------------------------------
    ----------------------------------------------------

    Steve Earle's 'Copperhead Road' is a bagpipe type of thing done in this manner, right?
     
  7. ottocat

    ottocat Tele-Meister

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    It's not that I'm horrible , I could be better .Started doing the E 5-1 chicky chord deal
    walk up to A then half steps up to B . Had a blast, hard core country rhythm .About 4 billion tunes like this .May mess with F-P blues ( haven't in a while ) Doing slide on the E 1,4,5, chicky deal , the walk up 4-5 Kills me and makes me laugh , How Zen Country .
    Been using that walk "er up to the 5 thing on That Okie Merle tune . That inherant ,
    Nurnt nernt nerr , I love it ,
    I don't have a problem with triples it's duples I guess.
    Transcribed Dear Abby , John Prine this morning for another triple . Been doing working class hero for a triple .
    As I write it's the figure quarter note followed by 2 eighths in 4 I am not natural yet. Working on it , Thanks a lot guys
     
  8. Woody Duke

    Woody Duke Tele-Meister

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    As a longtime pro freelance classical tenor (LA Master Chorale, churches when they needed somebody who could both read and sing loud, etc.), the best thing was training in inner rhythm. Whatever I'm doing, from Palestrina to Creedence, I've always got a "second audio channel" going "one-y-and-a two-y-and-a three-y-and-a four-y-and-a". Depending on the tempo and meter, you adapt the concept to the smallest subdivision you're comfy with. For me it's usually sixteenths but I know some who do 32nds. Then when you practice try putting emphasis on different points, such as "one-Y-and-a TWO-y-AND-a three-y-and-A FOUR-y-and-a". This keeps you flexible and helps avoid sounding too "square".
    It's a pain in the butt until it becomes second nature, and then it's indispensable.
    In a guitar context, this helps when you need to come up with rhythm parts more interesting than the basic strum.
     
  9. ottocat

    ottocat Tele-Meister

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    Copper head yup that's where the obsession started , made me fiddle , Seminole wind ,
    Ken that stuff is it exactly
     
  10. ottocat

    ottocat Tele-Meister

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    I'm familiar with the concept . I sort of have that going now. I haven't concentrated on rhythm in a while .I need to exercise at that sort of thing for a while . I used to sit an listen to the metronome for hours reading etc...
    Start at the fundamentals blocking and tackling so to speak . "Gentelmen this is a football....it bounces funny".
    Every one's input is greatly appreciated
     
  11. brewwagon

    brewwagon Poster Extraordinaire

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    ...join a punk reggae polka band :rolleyes:

    and always keep tapping that foot!!!


    quote " I used to sit and listen to the metronome for hours "

    (really that can f-#* with your mind)
     
  12. Scantron08

    Scantron08 Tele-Afflicted

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    You may want to give a spin to the Mississippi Sheiks - blues/country band with plenty of soul and plenty of fiddle.

    Should be easy to YouTube it.
     
  13. Ridge runner

    Ridge runner Banned

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    dumdadadada I guess could be counted 1 2&3& not really complicated at all.much better to my ears than 123,123
     
  14. mcgannahan

    mcgannahan Tele-Meister

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    The main thing I've discovered about rhythm guitar over the years is that the "less is more" really applies. Espeically in regards to not playing entire chord forms. More often than not some nicely voiced triads work much better.
     
  15. ottocat

    ottocat Tele-Meister

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    I transcribed the Rory Gallagher tune "Mississippi Sheiks" a year or so ago , I couldn't quite pull it off . Maybe I can now. I did a little research on mississippi sheiks . Had a fiddle player . Thanks for the reminder . Need to find out more..........Good Call
     
  16. ottocat

    ottocat Tele-Meister

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    Ken I think that Following you tune is brilliant. The melody and changes move me very much .Wow!!!!! Twice , the second time my baby grandson and I were rocking to it .
    Very nice.
     
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