Reviving the "Why vintage guitars are not worth the money" discussion

[mad dog]

I replied to the zombie thread on Ed Roman's rant. Not knowing it was quite dead. But the subject is interesting, so here is what I wrote:

What I find hard to take are the generalizations involved in these discussions. Haven't read the article ... but this dialog has been going on for years. It always ends the same for me. A binary choice: vintage or modern gear. Along with conflating collectors with those simply looking for interesting guitars.

Most vintage gear does not interest me, either in terms of price or inherent value. But there are little corners of vintage that do interest me. Not for collecting or value, more a case of unique things no longer made, with unique appeal. One case in point: old Guilds. I've always loved Guilds. They're overlooked in general, never come close to the bigger names in mass appeal.

A couple years ago I found an early 60s Guild archtop - a '62 Guild X50 - while looking for an older Gibson ES-125. I wanted a certain sound. Until recently, even the older Gibson ES-125s were relatively affordable. Anyway, found the X50 instead. And realized that this guitar was an alternate universe ES-125. Similar. In many ways, sonically, and in terms of build quality, better (IMO.) The Franz p/us being a big part of why. Guild has reissued some older models with those p/us, but not the X50. Then, through an aquaintance, a fellow Guild appreciator, I fell into a '61 Guild X-175, with two of those p/us. Here there is a modern equivalent, Guild's own X175 RI. I've played several, owned one. Nice instruments, not even close to the old one

These two old Guilds together cost far less than I'd have to pay for a vintage Gibson archtop. Maybe half of what it would cost for a used modern Gibson archtop such as the ES-175.

My takeaways: Vintage has appeal not generally, but specifically. Certain guitars or amps, certain brands. And a big part of that appeal is in the unique nature of the instruments themselves. Models no longer made, parts and quality different than modern. Bottom line: Forget the general wisdom. Let your own taste, ears and budget be your guide. There's more to vintage than just collectors and high prices.

 

[rz350]

I like my $300 Partscaster Strat, all Fender, sounds great!

I would be nervous gigging a '64 Telecaster, or something valuable like that, but that's just me...

If my beater Strat gets a scratch or nick, it's hard to notice....

 

[trev333]

Have you seen the price of vintage barbie dolls lately?...

only 3 bucks a pop back then...

 

[Killing Floor]

If it plays and sounds how you like it's worth whatever you will pay.

The thing players and collectors sometimes miss is there's not a "pre-CBS" of the 80s or 90s. In 50 years those 70s or 80s Strats will be worth the same as your parent's grandfather clock, whatever it costs to move it.
That's just the nature of collectables. As the collectors age out the market collapses and something else takes over.

I can appreciate a 60s Tele but my kids can't. And young players don't want grandmas old stuff. So if you want a truly vintage instrument go get one and rock it, I do. But remember the folks snatching up 1963 Fenders are in their 60s and 70s or more. So you've genuinely got about 10-15 more years before that value goes to near zero and the next thing takes over. So if you do get one remember the difference between a collectable and an investment. Buy it and play it.

 

[sax4blues]

Collecting is about rarity and playing is playing. These are different aspects, but one guitar can do both.

 

[FendrGuitPlayr]

It's all supply and demand. The real nice guitars are well kept. Most of the
deals I've seen were with much negotiating back and forth.

 

[StoneH]

I have a 1969 Strat. If I were gigging, I'd sell it in a heartbeat.

Back in the day, I had to play it through a Marshall (LOUD) to get the tone I wanted. I replaced 2 pups with "Fat Strats" because the stock pickups sounded thin to me (I put the stock pickups back in to restore the guitar). <Edit> When the venues got too small for the Marshall, I found a vintage Blonde Bassman that sounded great at lower volume.

If I ever do put my guitar up for sale, I will claim this was a drunk post and the guitar is perfect in every way.

 

[nojazzhere]

I replied to the zombie thread on Ed Roman's rant. Not knowing it was quite dead. But the subject is interesting, so here is what I wrote:

What I find hard to take are the generalizations involved in these discussions. Haven't read the article ... but this dialog has been going on for years. It always ends the same for me. A binary choice: vintage or modern gear. Along with conflating collectors with those simply looking for interesting guitars.

Most vintage gear does not interest me, either in terms of price or inherent value. But there are little corners of vintage that do interest me. Not for collecting or value, more a case of unique things no longer made, with unique appeal. One case in point: old Guilds. I've always loved Guilds. They're overlooked in general, never come close to the bigger names in mass appeal.

A couple years ago I found an early 60s Guild archtop - a '62 Guild X50 - while looking for an older Gibson ES-125. I wanted a certain sound. Until recently, even the older Gibson ES-125s were relatively affordable. Anyway, found the X50 instead. And realized that this guitar was an alternate universe ES-125. Similar. In many ways, sonically, and in terms of build quality, better (IMO.) The Franz p/us being a big part of why. Guild has reissued some older models with those p/us, but not the X50. Then, through an aquaintance, a fellow Guild appreciator, I fell into a '61 Guild X-175, with two of those p/us. Here there is a modern equivalent, Guild's own X175 RI. I've played several, owned one. Nice instruments, not even close to the old one

These two old Guilds together cost far less than I'd have to pay for a vintage Gibson archtop. Maybe half of what it would cost for a used modern Gibson archtop such as the ES-175.

My takeaways: Vintage has appeal not generally, but specifically. Certain guitars or amps, certain brands. And a big part of that appeal is in the unique nature of the instruments themselves. Models no longer made, parts and quality different than modern. Bottom line: Forget the general wisdom. Let your own taste, ears and budget be your guide. There's more to vintage than just collectors and high prices.

I'm on record as stating I'm only interested in a guitar (or whatever) as a "functioning tool". (BTW....band name alert) I hold no reverence (other than my respect as an icon) for an old guitar. In Telecaster related stuff, I put together my ideal Tele-style in 2019, for somewhere around $500. No vintage Fender meets my requirements, so spending more money would be pointless. I DO love many vintage amps, but a skilled technician can replicate those.....at least well enough to fool my ears.
I guess if a quirky old instrument can create a unique sound that floats your boat, that's the way to go....but I'm not looking for "quirky".

 

[Vibroluxer]

Vintage, expense, and collectobilty are 3 different things.

Personally when I'm looking for a guitar the biggest motivator is value. Don't get me wrong, I have little patience or self control but I can usually hang on until I find a price that won't leave be in the hole should I decide to sell it. Not always but I try

 

[JL_LI]

I’ve picked up vintage guitars, played them, and put them back. They were mostly marginal from a playability standpoint and some looked beat. Relic is the word these days but abused is closer to what they were. Or just old and not particularly well taken care of.

I have a CS ‘69 heavy relic Stratocaster. No one would confuse it with a vintage guitar. The working parts all work perfectly. The frets aren’t worn and full of divots. The case is in perfect shape and I have all the candy. It’s worth what it’s worth. I play it. I don’t hang it in a showcase and look at it.

 

[cometazzi]

I have a friend who (pre-C) gigs and records regularly in two bands with a 1952 Goldtop and Fender Vibrolux. She bought the guitar in the 80s for $500 "because in those days pointy guitars were the rage. You could just find LPs hanging on the walls in pawn shops everywhere, for cheap". The guitar isn't mint by any means, or 100% original (had the trapeze bridge swapped for a stopbar/tune-o-matic before she got it).

If people aren't offering her ridiculous amounts of money for it, they're chiding her for playing it out. Sometimes they do both at the same time. The only time she left it at home was when the band flew to England to play a bunch of historical pubs. An Epi Faded Double-cut stood in for that trip.

Otherwise, she says "This is the guitar I wanted to have, and it's the guitar I bought to play". So she plays it. A LOT.

 

[trev333]

" the money" means different things to different people...

what might sound a lot to you might be chump change for another....

 

[LOSTVENTURE]

The whole topic is way too generalized. I've been playing for 60+ years now and can tell you that there are some great old guitars out there, and at the same time, many that I would not steal if given the opportunity. The older stuff that was well cared for is usually worth the asking price. But, be aware that if a player has taken care of that particular guitar, and knows what he has, it wil not be cheap. Wether or not that's what you are willing to pay is strictly up to you.

 

[cometazzi]

I have little to no interest in vintage guitars. I did however have a thing for specific amplifiers- mostly about getting "the sound". This would be a VOX AC-15 for Brit Invasion stuff, a JCM800 for 70s/80s hard rock and metal stuff. I've lusted for a Princeton Reverb or Deluxe Reverb to capture the essence of that 60s surf sound. There was a time when those were out of print, and the only ones you could get were vintage. While you can buy a new one now people will argue till the cows revolt as to whether they're "good enough" or not.

Now that I've begun dabbling in amp building, I kinda feel like that stuff has relaxed quite a bit. It's probably cheaper to buy a used AC-15 than to build one, but I could build one to the spec of any era of AC-15 I wanted. Same for the JCM800, or a Princeton Reverb. I'm more about getting the sound than being hung up on having an "authentic piece". I don't even care if it doesn't look like the original. Other people would rather have the genuine article over a clone, even one that's a faithful replica in circuit, appearance and spirit.

To Mad Dog's point, sometimes the uniqueness factor is really cool too. There are some vintage amps that sound super neat, aren't worth much, but are also so rare that you'll probably never find one to buy. If you ever do find one to buy, they probably would need repairs that would cost more than the amp did.

That's where a decent clone comes in, but some people are turned off by clones.

 

[Recce]

Making popcorn awaiting responses. In my case I doubt a vintage guitar would help me play better and I am not a collector.

 

[StoneH]

Making popcorn awaiting responses. In my case I doubt a vintage guitar would help me play better and I am not a collector.

+1

 

[StrangerNY]

I have some real good 'new' Teles - a Danocaster, a Logan and a Fret-King. All excellent guitars, any of them would be a great number one if I wasn't fortunate enough to be able to choose.

My '68 Tele blows every one of them out of the water, and it's not even close. There seems to be a lot of minimizing of vintage guitars in this thread, but the bottom line is if you get yourself a good one, you'll know it.

- D

 

[Mjark]

I put the stock pickups back in to restore the guitar).

Thank you! I like vintage guitars but if may borrow a term from Bloomberg the market is overheated.

I agree about Guild I have a 1959 T100. It’s a cool guitar.

 

[Jupiter]

I replied to the zombie thread on Ed Roman's rant. Not knowing it was quite dead.

so's Ed BTW

 

[trev333]

I was backstage on the lawn tuning up the kids guitars for our annual Fete concert...
my partner running the band walks over and hands me a guitar in a cheap gig bag, I brought a spare guitar in case someone breaks a string you might as well, tune this one too.. and walked back to the stage...

I put it down, finished the tuning, zipped the bag open and pulled out a '59 slab board tele, kind of a blood red.. kinda bugs your eyes out... wtf!

no amp handy so I tuned it up played a few things on it to get a feel of the neck/action and put it back in the bag and got on with getting ready for the gig... secretly wishing a kid would break a string and one of them would get to play it onstage...