Reverb for shoegaze...

Discussion in 'The Stomp Box' started by Tsetse, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. Meshgearfox

    Meshgearfox Tele-Meister

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    One nice thing about those older rack units is that they tend to have a few "dual algorithms"- you can run different effects on the right and left sides. If you guitar rig is mono, that means you could use a looper to feed the right side from the front of the chain between your dirt pedals, and a second looper to feed the left side from near the end of the pedalboard. Two effects from one box (not counting the two loopers... and the preamp thing you might need to feed the rack unit.... and all that extra cabling, and the midi foot controller.... god, lets just start playing folk music and leave all this crap behind.)
     
  2. dntfeartherevrb

    dntfeartherevrb Tele-Meister

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    Have you looked at a Verbzilla?
     
  3. Snowwizard

    Snowwizard Tele-Holic

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    I think the Flint gets overlooked in this dept. you can do a lot with the flint.
     
  4. Tsetse

    Tsetse Tele-Meister

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    Again, thanks a lot, Meshgearfox - because of people like you, this is the definitive place to go, even with such rather outlandish (reverb) questions...
    Maybe I could even get away with using only one additional box on my board... I'm thinking of some kind of a true bypass looper (to be able to switch the rack unit out of the signal path when it's not needed) which includes some kind of limiter / preamp / booster / whatever to deal with the line / instrument level problem (I need to research this more) and maybe with an additional loop added.
    If something like that could be built, I'd put this looper pedal either after my dirt pedals or at the end of my chain - so the dirt (or all effects) on the board can be run into the rack reverb unit. The additional loop would include one dedicated dirt box to run after the reverb.
    That solution (if at all possible) wouldn't need much space on the pedal board (one additional box) and I'd only need a few more cables to run from the box to the reverb unit and back.
    As long as the unit itself can be used and programmed from the front panel, I wouldn't even need a midi controller. I'd just turn it on / select a new preset between songs and just switch it into the signal chain by using the looper pedal.

    In other news, I found a dirt-cheap Alesis Quadraverb Plus online - I'm ready to jump on it and already contacted the seller - if I indeed get it and even if I end up not liking it, I've invested considerably less than for any other stomp box I own, so I'm more than willing to take that risk. I should still be able to use it for (home) recording purposes...

    I hear ya! Just strumming away on an acoustic would sure be nice for a change :lol:

    I have, but it doesn't really offer those MBV-esque reverbs...

    Rack unit or no rack unit, the Flint definitely WON'T be overlooked... I really like what I'm hearing in those demos and as I mentioned somewhere, it just so happens that I'm looking for a new tremolo pedal as well... my current trem pedal can be tweaked to heart's content, but a) I only need about a 10th of its functions and b)it has a tendency to get lost in the mix and c) I'm sorely missing something like that phase-y '61 trem preset in there because I really dig that effect. The Flint is probably the next pedal on my list... I never bothered to research it before because I thought the pedal would be more geared toward somebody who's missing "standard" amp reverb / trem... I honestly didn't know that it offered such nice reverb sounds and I really like the trem sounds a lot as well.
     
  5. Stratburst

    Stratburst Friend of Leo's

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    I'd look at a bunch of Yamaha's reverbs n' boxes. The SPX 90 and 900 are good old-school choices, as is the Magicstomp. They've been discontinued, but easily available used.
     
  6. Kestrel

    Kestrel Tele-Afflicted

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    The EHX Cathedral is a pretty good unit for spacey Dreampop/Shoegaze stuff, but another to consider is the Source Audio Dimension Reverb. The downside is that you can't run it in stereo, but it can easily give you those thick, wet ethereal Slowdive-style reverbs.

    [​IMG]

    Incidentally, I was into a German shoegaze band called Malory a few years back. Haven't heard much from them these days, but "Not Here, Not Now" is one of my favourite shoegaze records.

     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  7. Meshgearfox

    Meshgearfox Tele-Meister

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    If I understand your rig correctly you have an Rv-7, Cathedral and a Twin Reverb (+some form of dirt, mod and delay). The Rv-7 handles gated sounds well but is a bit "tame". The Cathedral does reverse but doesn't get big or extreme enough on the ambiance. The Twin sounds like a Twin.

    Have you tried stacking pedals for the big ambient moments? Some combination of Rv-7, Cathedral and/or spring (with delay and chorus/phase to taste) should create huge washes of sound. One Reverb before dirt (Rv-7?), one after, in various combinations with the twin's reverb would cover a lot of sonic territory.

    Not trying to talk you out of the rack thing, just wondering if you've already got everything you need.

    If you do get the Quadraverb try running it without a bypass looper. The Alesis stuff was generally pretty guitar friendly. And you do seem like the sort of person who could have all sorts of fun playing with the pre-delay, pre-delay mix and density settings in those boxes.
     
  8. Tsetse

    Tsetse Tele-Meister

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    UPDATE: I'm now the proud owner of an Alesis Quadraverb - the seller even offered to pay the shipping costs himself, so it was even cheaper than I thought... really looking forward to trying this thing out! So, while I appreciate all suggestions that have been made and continue to be made, but I have a very good feeling about the Alesis... thanks for posting that Malory song, though - never heard of them before but I like what I'm hearing!

    The Twin is actually more like a "DIY Dual Showman Reverb" - it was converted to a head and is powering a closed-back cab loaded with two JBL E-120s - I wanted to maximize clean headroom in a manageable (weight / size) package and that's what it does. My board consists of a boatload of dirt pedals in a variety of flavors (because of zero dirt from the amp and because I need to cover a lot of ground in that department), comp, two delays, trem and not a single modulation effect... I like modulated delays and reverbs but modulation per se - not enough to sacrifice pedalboard real estate for a few occasions per evening where I could sensibly use one or the other type. I'll give the mod effects on the Quadraverb a long hard look, though... if I have them available, why not use them...

    Hmmm... maybe I'll need to give that a try - to be precise, the RV-7 replaced the Cathedral and I was without a reverb pedal on the board for a few weeks in between taking the Cathedral off the board (which is now with our other guitarist) and putting the RV-7 on... I was experimenting with delay pedals and trying to get close to MBV-style sounds by using them instead of reverb pedals. So both pedals have never been on the board at the same time. On the other hand, I've always found both the Cathedral and the RV-7 to not be entirely satisfactory or rather not ideally suited to what I have in mind - they somehow never "clicked" with me like all of the other effects on my board do (with the exception of my trem which I'm soon going to replace).

    Before I really start looking into looper pedals etc., that's exactly what I'm going to do once the Quadraverb arrives - in that context it's good to hear that it's supposed to be guitar friendly. If noise / loss of dynamics / anything else should end up being a problem, I do have two different true bypass loopers lying around so there's always the option to switch the Quadraverb out of the signal path for the rest of our songs. For the songs in question, I don't think that a little static noise or whatever problems might arise should be noticeable, at least not live - they're very loud and very "dense" songs for lack of a better term.

    In general, I really like effects and I like tweaking them, experimenting with them - I don't view them as toys or pastimes but as a part of the instrument. Of course those are parts not everybody needs or wants to use (depending on music genre / play style / preference) and it's not like I'm using them all the time but we do have a large number of songs where the songs can really benefit from choosing and using the right types / amounts of effects. Basically, I'm by far the "nerdier" of us two guitarists, so more often than not, the "crazy sounds" job falls to me and tbh, I love it! ;)
     
  9. Post-HK

    Post-HK Tele-Meister

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    Awesome, you'll love it!
     
  10. Tsetse

    Tsetse Tele-Meister

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    @Post-HK:
    Thank you! Forgot to mention it, but it's also the "Plus" version that I'm going to get so it looks like we'll both be running the same device for reverb goodness;).
    Would you mind sharing a bit about how you're using it? What kind of amp / are you running it in the front of the amp or in an FX loop / are you using it in conjunction with other effects (pedals) etc. / do you use some kind of a looper pedal / other device with it?

    I've been looking for sound samples / demos of the Quadraverb and I'm really digging what I'm hearing... pretty impressive list of users as well...
     
  11. fly135

    fly135 Tele-Holic

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  12. Post-HK

    Post-HK Tele-Meister

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    I got mine last Saturday, so I'm really in the early stages of discovering it. I've been using it for my guitars & my Rhodes, either plugged straight in to the Quadraverb or with a dirt pedal in front, and then Quad plugged into the amp input. I don't have a lot of other pedals, and neither of my Fender amps (Princeton Reverb, Vibroverb) have an FX loop - thus it's a pretty simple set up.
     
  13. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

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    IDK if it's been mentioned yet, and someone could easily say "that's not Shoegaze by a long shot," but when I think of "non-standard" reverb and having it work both in studio and on stage, I will ALWAYS think of Sigur Ros, which brings me to the TC Electronic M350 Reverb.

    Is it a stomp? No. Do I think it will get you those 'verb sounds? I have strong feeling that it might.

    ...Is it affordable? It looks like it's CURRENTLY $200USD, which is possibly less than a great many reverb pedals.

    And whether or not it's a _____-genre reverb, I know it "just works" from the countless hours I've spent listening to Sigur Ros, both their studio stuff AND their live stuff.

    TTBOMK, the TC Electronic M350 Reverb is plugged into a JCM2000 set for clean operation (by S.R.). I know that amp has an FX loop, but it's not like it's some modern hand-crafted wonder - it's a standard mass-produced amp. Point being - whatever concession had to be made to get it to work as a line-level device could probably be overcome. Maybe even a box on the floor w/send & receive might be sufficient - who knows?

    Whatever is decided on, IMO it would be better to choose something that has a bit of a track record of knowing that it simply works, as opposed to "this (new) box offers A, B, and C," IMO...
     
  14. Tsetse

    Tsetse Tele-Meister

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    First off, sorry for answering so late but we just spent two days in our rehearsal space. I hope that the Quadraverb will arrive some time during the next week because I'm planning to spend the best part of the next weekend in our room alone with my amp and the Quadraverb... looking forward to that a lot.

    @fly135: Beautiful clip, thanks for sharing... I'll remember the Magicstomp in case my "rack experiment" fails... if on the other hand it ends up being a success, I might even start to look into further rack units - Yamaha is a big name on that list and I really dig that "Early Reflections" preset. I guess that this "Early Reflections" preset was taken from earlier Yamaha rack units? I know that Kevin Shields used that and I know that on the rack units you could select a reverse / gated mode from within that preset - is that also possible with the Magicstomp?

    @Post-HK: Brilliant! So you're using it in exactly the same way I intend to use it.

    @11 Gauge: Thank you for chiming in here, much appreciated! Let me start by saying that I'm a massive Sigur Ros fan - I own almost all of their recorded output and I desperately want to see them live as well - seems like I have a bad habit of constantly missing their shows...

    I know what you mean, but I don't really care for that kind of categorization either. One of the reasons why I mentioned the word "shoegaze" in the thread title is that people familiar with "those" sounds know what you're talking about at once rather than suggesting reverb pedals that were, for example, clearly designed to provide a spring reverb emulation for amps that lack a reverb tank.

    Our band isn't exactly a 24/7 shoegaze band but there are a few songs which would fit into that "category". Personally and in addition to my perceived need to add a couple of good reverse / gated reverb sounds for those "MBV-esque moments", I'm aiming toward introducing some more "dreamscape-y", "washy" elements into the sound of our band in the future so I'm all ears when it comes to suggestions like that TC Electronic unit. Especially since that is obviously used by a band which constantly produces (to my ears at least) jaw-dropping sounds.

    For the time being, I'm waiting for the Quadraverb to arrive but I'll definitely keep that M350 in mind, not least because of that track record you mention.

    Btw, I'm in a real "reverb buying and trying" mood, but there's also a number of some truely incredible dirt boxes seemingly falling into my lap right now... I've got an old op-amp Big Muff on loan which literally blows apart every other Big Muff (or variant or clone) I've ever played and which I honestly don't want to part with and there's also an old but minty Marshall Shredmaster which I'm dying to try with my amp, so my funds are quite limited... ahh, the money... ;)
     
  15. 11 Gauge

    11 Gauge Doctor of Teleocity

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    I kind of thought that was your intention, but didn't want to derail the heart of the conversation, if other folks were kind of locked in on a particular way, and 'sticking with shoegaze gear' is a way to do it.

    I hear you. I tend to look for that with some stuff that I've heard others do. My attention was really captured by the Mermen some years ago.

    I've always loved A Heart With Paper Walls:


    ...and I guess that With No Definite Future And No Purpose Other Than To Prevail Somehow is another fitting one:


    ...and - Burn (got ~13 minutes to spare? :eek:):


    Jim Thomas' rig is somewhat daunting/frightening, but from what I've read, he's kind of whittled it down in recent years. And much of the gear that he favors tends to be rather common stuff. It's just how it's all put together. My only reason for mentioning the Mermen is that there's more than one way to handle this rig implementation of "non-spring 'verb". ;)

    Oh - and Jerry Donahue seemed to get this working (to some degree, like during the intro & quieter passages) with Almost Dawn on the 3rd Hellecasters album:


    ...J.D. hasn't been big on embracing a traditional rig by any stretch...
     
  16. kyle wesley

    kyle wesley TDPRI Member

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    For what it's worth I second the EQD Afterneath!

    You'll get some really, really weird tones from it (artifacts etc), but it's all useable. And it all can be dialed in. Definitely recommend it, as it seems you are shying away from standard reverbs.

    On a side note: I play a lot of post rock and shoegaze. I'm not sure what you do about delay, but I recommend the Visual Sound Dual Tap to go along with the Afterneath.

    Good luck!

    Edit: Just realized I missed the boat and didn't read the second page. Hope the pedal works for ya!
     
  17. Tsetse

    Tsetse Tele-Meister

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    @11 Gauge:
    And so is mine right now... truely beautiful - thanks a lot for introducing them to me. I listened to some more of their music and I think it's really interesting - I can hear that their musical background is rooted in Surf Music, but what they're doing is more than just a new twist on an old genre, I think.

    And thanks a lot for mentioning them - that's some food for thought right there. I need to research his rig a little more, it seems...

    @nashville blues:
    Erm, it's rather a rack unit than a pedal, but thank you! ;)

    After doing lots and lots of experimentation in that department, I've settled on two separate pedals, both from Catalinbread, a Montavillian and an Echorec. Those two effectively stopped any further interest in delay pedals for me. (Just fyi, those were NOT the delay pedals I tried to get approximations of my "MBV reverb sounds" from, like I mentioned somewhere earlier.) The Montavillian is my "default" delay pedal for most "normal" delay uses plus it has the ability to create some pretty unique "on the edge of oscillation / endless repeats" sounds. The Echorec is a very different beast - I really like the rhythmical component of most of its "presets" and the fact that I can go from these "rhythms" to a very dense "soup" just by varying my attack / adjusting my palm muting, I like the modulation and I like the fact that it can sound positively "spooky" and really huge.

    Regarding the EQD Afterneath: Like I mentioned before, I'll start looking at reverb pedals when my "rack experiment" fails but until that, I'm going to put a lot of time into experimenting with the Quadraverb - the only possible exception being the Flint because I'm looking for a different trem pedal anyway (and when it comes to trem, the Flint basically covers any trem sound that I could want - part of the reason for that is that I probably won't touch my Twin's trem ever again and certainly not for live use. The amp has been modded so that I can remove its trem circuit from the signal path and the amp sounds much better to my ears when it's defeated.)
     
  18. honeycreek

    honeycreek Tele-Afflicted

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    Line 6 M5 - Delay and Reverb options.
     
  19. Tsetse

    Tsetse Tele-Meister

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    Quick update just to keep the thread alive: My Quadraverb Plus arrived yesterday and is in fine working condition (basically good as new). I'm still in the process of learning how to program that thing, but it sure shows promise - not the spectacularly crappy presets (or the majority thereof) though - now where did I leave my spandex pants and hairspray again? ;)

    There seems to be SOME noise, but I will only be able to tell for sure once I'll get the chance to play it through my main amp (which is really quiet) next weekend... still wouldn't be a deal-breaker when it comes to our "shoegazey" songs though, but I'm starting to think that it will be best off in a dedicated true bypass loop when I'm not actively using it. With my practice amp it's hard to tell, really...

    Now, on to some more programming...

    Regards,
    Stephan
     
  20. Meshgearfox

    Meshgearfox Tele-Meister

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    There are 2 different bypass modes in the Quadraverb. One is essentially a straight pass through from input to output. The other bypasses the FX but keeps the global volume and EQ active. That second mode can add a lot of noise, especially if the gain and high EQ are cranked up. In they end you may still prefer to bypass the unit entirely when its not in use. Good luck, and feel free to post some sound clips....
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
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