Reverb and the used market

[hawk620]

Well, alls I'm saying is that before I moved countries, my local used market was often down to 50% cheaper than Reverb, with lots of stuff available. Guess which I preferred?

PS. Yes, Reverb sellers grossly overpricing their wares are idiots. There, I said it.

I see a whole lot of crazy pricing on Reverb as well but is it really any crazier than some of the more recent price increases by manufacturers on new gear? Is there a method to the madness or are they doing it just because they can?

In either case it may be the seller/manufacturer will end up significantly discounting from that price to a buyer who believes he's getting a better deal due to the discount vs the seller or dealer who had it priced for far less to begin with.

Is a 20% discount on an item priced at $1000 any better than the same item priced at $799? Only in the mind of those who have zero basic math skills maybe? I dunno. Reverb runs multiple sales throughout the year so maybe the pricing is in anticipation of those and offering discounts then?

I look at the prior sales for an idea of how to price something also taking into consideration the net price likely paid buy the buyer and whether or not some sales were made other than the US where prices may be higher. Much higher or lower than average tend to be outliers to be discarded.

 

[hawk620]

My gripe is the overpricing of out of production items, on the basis that they are old and rare. The result is the vendor doesn't get the funds they can use to purchase something they want. And crucially, old gear that should be enjoyed and used to make music, whilst it still works, is lost to the world. No one wins. Let people make music with the gear you don't want. Finding that sad and wrong, is fair in my book.

But what is "fair market value" for anything that's old or rare other than what a buyer is willing to pay and a seller willing to accept? If there are few of or only one of the item being sold in a free market within reason supply vs demand will determine it's pricing wouldn't you say?

I own a bass I initially paid $300 for. More recently bone stock versions of that same now discontinued bass have sold for as much as $800-$850. Should I ask less for mine when the market has established it's FMV as $800-$850 and buyers have shown a willingness to pay that much for one?

 

[hawk620]

I have a Player II Telecaster listed on Craigslist for $300 in order to get a quick sale. I have not had any interest. I am contemplating listing on Reverb. A quick sale price there would be $500 but I would still end up netting only a little more than $300 after I factor in the cost of materials to ship, including a boxes and filler. Then, the cost of actually shipping the guitar. What is a good estimate for shipping a guitar via UPS?

If you begin a listing on Reverb where is comes to shipping options Reverb can help determine that cost to various locations based on both the size of the shipping box and it's weight. Larger boxes are assessed a higher cost by shippers based on that and it's weight so it pays to limit carton size.

Depending on all of that and where you're shipping to you could be looking at anywhere from as little as $50-$60 to as much as $100-$120. There's also the cost of insurance or Reverb Protection which ranges from 1%-3% of the items cost. It's very difficult to compete with retailers who ship at commercial rates as low as $15-$20 for the same shipment.

 

[sadfield]

But what is "fair market value" for anything that's old or rare other than what a buyer is willing to pay and a seller willing to accept? If there are few of or only one of the item being sold in a free market within reason supply vs demand will determine it's pricing wouldn't you say?

Yes, exactly. If items haven't sold in 6 months to 5 years, as can be readily seen on Reverb, then it's fair to say that the market value isn't what the seller is asking. Which was my point, there's a lot of gear in this limbo, sat waiting for a buyer that isn't coming.

 

[msalama]

is it really any crazier than

I personally don't care either way, since I only buy F2F and used these days. And so far I've either paid less, or at worst, roughly the same than what a similar item usually sells for on Reverb. Plus I get to test the gear before deciding, too.

 

[String Tree]

Unless you over pay for something, you can always relist guitars for the same price if you don't like them.

I suppose one could do that. As for me, I like the thrill of finding a Great Axe, playing it and Knowing that its coming home with ME!
But that's just me.
We all have to get there in our own way.
-ST

 

[Maguchi]

I bought a few used and even a few new guitars on Reverb and some parts and accessories too. Some were a little overpriced, and some were dynamite deals. For example a couple years ago I bought a new reissue Vox Bobcat for only 33% of what the list price was. Also a new Hagstrom '67 Viking II reissue for about half price. It's just another of the sites I buy stuff off of sometimes. If something is priced too high at one site, I'll look elsewhere. Ain't no big deal.

 

[Jimi Boka]

The markups from dealers must be pretty high. Whenever I buy on reverb I buy from dealers and always ask if they’d accept a $ amount between 10 and 15% less and usually get accepted. Even if they don’t have a “make an offer”. Just ask.
I would never buy used high-end electronics. Anything that uses memory. Lots of times the memory is filled when you get it or something is messed up due to the past owner’s mistakes.

 

[hawk620]

Yes, exactly. If items haven't sold in 6 months to 5 years, as can be readily seen on Reverb, then it's fair to say that the market value isn't what the seller is asking. Which was my point, there's a lot of gear in this limbo, sat waiting for a buyer that isn't coming.

In 5 years I'd surely agree but if something is rare or unique it may take 6-12 months for the right buyer to come along and pay the price being asked.

But if we're talking about more common run of the mill production guitars of more recent vintage I would tend to agree with you on those.

IMHO this is where the Reverb "sold" stats can be helpful especially if a seller can see 6 months to a year of previous sales for his or her model in various conditions.

That data pretty firmly establishes the range of FMV for that particular item and it's very doubtful anyone will pay a price that's outside of that range on the high side.

 

[Preacher]

Sometimes you just get lucky, but usually it is when people are lazy and don't do any research and list stuff under value...

I have bought a few guitars that were priced below what they were worth. I buy most of my stuff on Marketplace or Offer up and occasionally on CL.
I think we are all searching for that holy grail of a '57 Tele that was under the bed for the last 50 years and the old widow woman is trying to get rid of stuff before she moves into a home.

Those days are rare and few for sure with the advent of the smartphone a few clicks or a picture can tell you the value of an item.

I understand that some of the stuff I will probably not be able to resell at a profit and that some stuff I might make a few bucks on.

I also like to help people on MP sometimes when they list their Fender Squier Stratocaster for $800 on Marketplace and tell people it is hardly used. I did this recently and the person came back and told me that they appreciated my input but that was what they had paid for it last year and they were just wanting to get their money back.

 

[joe_cpwe]

All good points but I can't meet a guy in a parking lot and use a credit card.

Cash is king in used gear. I carry around a significant amount, whenever I go garage saling, lots of great deals.

But when you figure in fees, you're losing 15% or so.

I'm almost exclusively cash, buying and selling. Which means I'm selling on Marketplace mostly which so far has been fine.
In advance of a trip to Nashville last fall I scouted Eric Johnson Strats. Found one on Reverb but when I arrived at the shop I asked him the cash price. He said, "paper money?" I said yes. I got a smokin deal, he sold the guitar, fattened his wallet and had no paper work. Cash is King.

I mostly keep an eye on things within an hour or two from home, keep cash from gigs and gear sales on hand for when a deal comes up.
I almost never lose money on gear. I buy used and sell used. I'm not flipping to pay the mortgage, but when I want to get rid of something I've usually gotten it at a good enough price to make a few bucks.

 

[Alaska Mike]

Since we're on a Fender-centric forum:
FMIC is going to charge what they can get for their products. Probably a bit more, just to make the shareholders happy. That includes a hefty premium for the name on the sticker, which is their primary asset. Fender routinely overshoots what the market will bear, then has frequent sales to a level that is more palatable for buyers. The fact that it is a "sale" triggers more impulse buying and increased sales. Having Fender website-only sales undercuts the dealer network (who are contractually bound to MAP- even if many of them dodge it), driving more traffic to their website and allowing them to keep a higher profit margin despite the "sale" price. The brick and mortars can either stand firm with MAP or join the race to the bottom and eventual closure. Bigger retailers can make special deals and get by with volume.

Retailers get on Reverb and sell "demos" or "floor models" at a discount to move inventory. Often these are new, unopened products that have never seen a showroom floor. It can be a complete drop-ship situation. You get none of the "service" that you would expect of an independent retailer, and they don't have extra expenses setting up and maintaining that instrument before the sale. Margins are low (especially after fees), but so is the effort.

We all know the pandemic boom/shortage screwed up everyone's price perspective. There was more than one music store that I visited during that era that had one guitar hanging on a wall of empty hooks, usually a battered BC Rich or something like it, pulled out of a closet after decades of not being played, marked at an insanely high price. Then the supply chain started to open up, the trickle became a flood, and the famine became a glut. Then, as with every boom, it lost momentum. There's an awful lot of people left without a chair when the music ended. Some are willing to take the hit and move on, but some aren't willing to. Maybe they are deluding themselves. Maybe they really aren't super motivated to sell unless the right offer comes their way. I have been in every one of these mental states.

There are deals out there on Reverb. Sometimes you have to wait, cash in hand, for them to come along, but they're out there. There's also a lot of wishful thinking. Make your offers, don't take it personally when they're ignored or rejected, and keep a healthy perspective on things.

 

[joe_cpwe]

RE the overall sentiment of the post, yes there are a lot less good deals to be had but there's still some out there. I just bought a guitar on Friday (Marketplace). Listed as "Fender Stratocaster with contour body". Obviously, not a guitar player. Price was definitely in my favor, esp when I ran SN with Fender and found out what it actually was.

RE Reverb listings, there's some good deals, and some crazy high ones too. It seems that prices are coming down. Where I find ridiculously high prices for guitars is eBay. There used to be some very good deals on eBay, now there's no deals and mostly overpriced.

I'm not too keen on selling through Reverb. Thin skinned buyers, scammers, high fees, and a 1099...no thanks.

 

[ZackyDog]

I'm in no hurry to sell anything. I usually have to wait weeks and even months to get the price that I want. But it's worth it.