Replacing rotted binding...

[NightOwl]

A friend gave me a 1969 Gretsch country gentleman with really horrible binding rot. He'd already broken the guitar down for the most part. It's missing the bridge and the Bigsby (not a big deal) also. I'm really excited to try replacing the binding. The neck joint is still tight but the finish is totally ratty. I may cut in actual f-holes and re-spray it a different color. I don't plan on selling it so resale value is not a concern. I wanna make it mine.

So, long story short, tips and color suggestions are always welcome! I'm not painting it dog pecker pink.

 

[Cali Dude]

I had a 66 Gent. Please tell me you are experienced with this sort of thing. I would hate to see a beauty like that getting carved up. Say it isn't so!

 

[knavel]

Here is an instructional video from the best Gretsch binding rot person I am aware of (now retired from the work). He's done binding work on two Gretsches in my family.

I am hesitant to share this based on the envisioned modifications to the guitar. Country Gentlemans had real F holes by 1972 if you are bothered by the silkscreened ones. The missing parts are easy to get modern versions of.

 

[NightOwl]

I had a 66 Gent. Please tell me you are experienced with this sort of thing. I would hate to see a beauty like that getting carved up. Say it isn't so!

I'm not saying that I'm gonna do anything irreversible just yet. I'm just not ruling anyanything out either. I'm so used to my Setzer Hot Rod that this thing seems overly complex. What caused this guitar to stink? I mean it really stinks. It's like smell it from across the room stink. Either way, it needs a refinsh. Someone attacked it with sandpaper and part of the case lining is stuck to the body.

 

[NightOwl]

Here is an instructional video from the best Gretsch binding rot person I am aware of (now retired from the work). He's done binding work on two Gretsches in my family.

I am hesitant to share this based on the envisioned modifications to the guitar. Country Gentlemans had real F holes by 1972 if you are bothered by the silkscreened ones. The missing parts are easy to get modern versions of.

I found this video. He really makes it look easy. Haven't gotten all the way through all of his videos yet. I'll probably watch them ten more times.

 

[charlie chitlin]

Here is an instructional video from the best Gretsch binding rot person I am aware of (now retired from the work). He's done binding work on two Gretsches in my family.

I am hesitant to share this based on the envisioned modifications to the guitar. Country Gentlemans had real F holes by 1972 if you are bothered by the silkscreened ones. The missing parts are easy to get modern versions of.

Is that Curt from NJ?

 

[Cali Dude]

I'm not saying that I'm gonna do anything irreversible just yet. I'm just not ruling anyanything out either. I'm so used to my Setzer Hot Rod that this thing seems overly complex. What caused this guitar to stink? I mean it really stinks. It's like smell it from across the room stink. Either way, it needs a refinsh. Someone attacked it with sandpaper and part of the case lining is stuck to the body.

Oh wow. That's unfortunate. It sounds like mold. I hope it wasn't exposed to a flood, or some other severe water damage. That kind of repair is beyond my ability. Those Setzer Gretschs are nice. Very cool axe.

 

[Freeman Keller]

The old celluloid binding on Gretsches and other jazz guitars from that era frequently rot out like that. In a few cases the binding just shrinks and pulls away from the body in the waist or inside the horn - the fix is to very carefully apply a little heat and stretch it back in place.

In a lot of cases the binding just completely rots away and needs to be replaced. Often the purfling is OK and you need to make the decision on whether to replace it or try to save it. Here is an old Ibanez that was that way

I routed the old binding away leaving the purfling

Its really tricky with the neck on the guitar - both awkward with all that weight sticking out and of course you can't route at the neck heel

I had the additional problem that the back was separating from the heel - I opened it up, injected glue and clamped back together.

Then its just a matter of rebinding with modern PVC material. I have learned that I don't like and I don't trust acetone based glues - I have much better luck binding when I tape it solidly in place and then tack it with water thin CA, then go back and wick CA into the seam all the way around.

Scrape it back

Then you have one more issue. The lacquer on a fifty or sixty year old guitar will have aged to a beautiful amber color, you need to duplicate that on the touch up.

Mine wasn't perfect, but better than before....

 

[Peegoo]

I would hate to see a beauty like that getting carved up. Say it isn't so!

It's a guitar that's not particularly valuable in its current condition, and the cost of a true restoration would be close to the value of the guitar when it's done because it won't be all original. That makes it a zero-sum project.

Why not fix the binding and modify it to your heart's content? It's a guitar...it's not the actual legbone of Saint Chet of Luttrell.

Eddie Cochran cut a larger hole in the top of his Gretsch to install a P90 in the neck position, and I'm sure some of his pals had a problem with that. Eric Clapton disassembled three brand new Fender Strats and assembled one from the various parts he liked the best. There was probably some eye-rolling after he left the room.

How can anyone be offended by someone modifying any guitar? That's no different than complaining about people that like green cars.

Green? That's no color for a real automobile

Knock yourself out, NightOwl. Make it your own!

 

[NightOwl]

It's a guitar that's not particularly valuable in its current condition, and the cost of a true restoration would be close to the value of the guitar when it's done because it won't be all original. That makes it a zero-sum project.

Why not fix the binding and modify it to your heart's content? It's a guitar...it's not the actual legbone of Saint Chet of Luttrell.

Eddie Cochran cut a larger hole in the top of his Gretsch to install a P90 in the neck position, and I'm sure some of his pals had a problem with that. Eric Clapton disassembled three brand new Fender Strats and assembled one from the various parts he liked the best. There was probably some eye-rolling after he left the room.

How can anyone be offended by someone modifying any guitar? That's no different than complaining about people that like green cars.

Green? That's no color for a real automobile

Knock yourself out, NightOwl. Make it your own!

That's my thinking exactly! It's pretty hard to f'ck up a junkyard. ALL of the body binding is shot. I wish it was as nice as the bad binding everyone is sending pictures of. Did I mention that this guitar really smells bad? It's like put the case outside bad.

 

[Peegoo]

Is it a sort of vomit smell? That's something I've encountered on older guitars with deteriorating plastics that have been stored long-term in their cases.

The smell is from butyric acid (a byproduct of breakdown of certain plastics). Most people are familiar with this smell when they open a toolbox or drawer containing old screwdrivers with plastic handles. Butyric acid is also present in vomit--so there ya go...

 

[knavel]

I'm not saying that I'm gonna do anything irreversible just yet. I'm just not ruling anyanything out either. I'm so used to my Setzer Hot Rod that this thing seems overly complex. What caused this guitar to stink? I mean it really stinks. It's like smell it from across the room stink. Either way, it needs a refinsh. Someone attacked it with sandpaper and part of the case lining is stuck to the body.

1) You can easily wire the guitar like a Setzer hot rod and I recommend it--that's how I have my 1965 6120 set up. Especially so if the guitar really stinks as you report, because....

2) I once bought a 1967 Gretsch Monkees. I'm fairly sure it had been in a flood, if not submerged, the case was a stink bomb. I managed with some work to remove the stink from the guitar. I remember for the inside of the guitar using dried rice and shaking it around. I can't recall if I mixed the rice with any sort of powder, but I got the tip looking around so I'm sure you can find it. It helped. But the wiring always had a tinge of the stink--so a new one might not be a bad idea.

 

[knavel]

Is that Curt from NJ?

Yes.

 

[Peegoo]

Back in the 50s and 60s, animal glues (hide glue, etc.) were common in guitar construction as well as case construction. If it got wet and stayed wet for a few days or was stored in damp conditions, it would stink like a dead animal.

 

[knavel]

It's a guitar that's not particularly valuable in its current condition, and the cost of a true restoration would be close to the value of the guitar when it's done because it won't be all original. That makes it a zero-sum project.

Eddie Cochran cut a larger hole in the top of his Gretsch to install a P90 in the neck position, and I'm sure some of his pals had a problem with that. Eric Clapton disassembled three brand new Fender Strats and assembled one from the various parts he liked the best. There was probably some eye-rolling after he left the room.

How can anyone be offended by someone modifying any guitar? That's no different than complaining about people that like green cars.

Green? That's no color for a real automobile

Knock yourself out, NightOwl. Make it your own!

I agree it's his instrument. Plus the flood/water damage aspect was not mentioned at the outset.

The cutting of F holes to me is the aspect of the project that I would think would benefit from some expertise. On top of the skill set, if the OP wants to do a Gretsch style F-hole, I would expect he might not be aware that there are two types of Gretsch F holes and the one that would more likely be appropriate for a Country Gent ("more appropriate" since that model never had F holes from the beginning so reference would be made to 6120s, Country Clubs and other high end models) requires extra skill since it involves binding work.

My somewhat concern was not modifying (I've cut up a number of old Gretsches myself) the risk of the job not being done well as discussed above.

Eddie Cochran and Clapton I feel with all respect are not really applicable references for when the modified their guitars there was no such concept as vintage value, which, as mentioned, may not be such a concern here if the guitar is a stink bomb.

Plus, I've said all my life that Cochran put the P-90 in the wrong spot--the neck deArmond in my extensive experience is what makes 50s Gretsches. The bridge deArmond is generally the let down. If I had had the distinct honor to have known him personally I might have pointed that aspect out to him but I wouldn't have criticized his doing mods in the first place. But I digress.

 

[knavel]

If you refinish here are prototype Country Gents. Cool color and no F holes at all, which is a look I kind of like.

https://www.vintageguitar.com/18136/gretchs-1-country-gent/

 

[charlie chitlin]

Yes.

Yup... he's the man for that job.

 

[knavel]

Yup... he's the man for that job.

He announced around the end of last year he's not doing binding rot repair jobs anymore.

 

[charlie chitlin]

He announced around the end of last year he's not doing binding rot repair jobs anymore.

That's just what he told foreigners.
Bwaaaaahahahahaha!

 

[jayyj]

My Gretsch is on the cusp with the binding, I suspect it can cope for a few more years but it looks pretty tatty.

I don't see the harm in a refin under the circumstances, but I wouldn't put F holes in it. Aside from the fact that the CGs look cool as anything refinished without even the painted on F holes, it's one of those mods that if you don't pull it off perfectly it will look awful. I've seen added F holes before and they haven't looked great.