Replacing grille cloth on Rivera Quiana

Endless Mike

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Posts
3,560
Location
Arlington, Texas
How-d,

So the title gives the general idea. I've removed the original grille covering material, which was twenty-three years old and falling apart. Just pushing your fingers into it would rip it.

So now I have to get the new material on. I know how to handle everything but one small part, which is actually a big part. Everything else is easy with a staple gun. So in the attached image, you'll see a horizontal gap along the upper area underneath the Rivera name plate, and the grille cloth was attached there by some sort of glue/adhesive. How in the heck do I hold the grille cloth in place while the glue dries? I don't think the piping was used to do this, as the piping along the top came right out, without much resistance. It certainly wasn't glued into place.

I'm hoping someone here has had experience with this sort of thing, and can tell me how to accomplish this. I have wire of the right diameter that could be pushed into place to hold the grille cloth in place until the glue dries, but then the wire won't likely come back out once the glue has dried. Not without taking some or all of what I've just installed with it.

The first photo shows the same model amp as mine, which has the controls on top, like a Fender Bassman or Blues Deluxe/Deville. So no, it's not just a cabinet. Notice the piping under the Rivera name plate, right along the top of the upper most horizontal edge of the grille cloth. The second photo shows my actual grille, sans cloth, and the gap where the grille cloth is glued in and the piping runs.

Thank you for your help, as I really need it.
 

Attachments

  • rivera-quiana-50-212-ruby-red-1.jpg
    rivera-quiana-50-212-ruby-red-1.jpg
    384.1 KB · Views: 42
  • Grille.jpg
    Grille.jpg
    154.1 KB · Views: 41
Last edited:

Wally

Telefied
Ad Free Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Posts
42,701
Location
Lubbock, TX
Editted due to my misunderstanding. In the words of Emily Littela…
“Oh…never mind.”
 
Last edited:

schmee

Telefied
Ad Free Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Posts
22,645
Location
northwest
Not sure why this is even built that way. But.... are you saying the grill cloth goes between the maroon covered top board and the frame and is glued there?
-Does it have to be glued or can those two pieces just be separate? How does it mount to the cab? Screwed from the back?
-If it must be glued together with the grill cloth in between, (seems very odd and fragile if I understand this) I would:
- finish putting the grill cloth on the bare frame,
-place both on a flat table and glue the seam/grill cloth. Use two pipe clamps or long bar clamps to squeeze the joint together and let it dry.
-Gluing the top panel to folded over grill cloth seems useless.... I'd find a way to mount them separate
 

Wally

Telefied
Ad Free Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Posts
42,701
Location
Lubbock, TX
Let’s see if I understand it now?? The grille cloth is glued to the exterior flat of that black grille board there, correct? There must be a small amount of cloth that extends beyond the board that is up then held in place by that horizontal piping, correct.
If this is so, then I would consider doing this. Glue the cloth to that flat.…leaving the appropriate amount of cloth outside of that glued portion to fit under the piping. Once again, I would do this gluing first. Use a length of board to press the cloth in place with clamps while the glue dries. I would then install that horizontal piece of piping….before proceeding to stapling the other three sides of the cloth. Heat shrink the cloth if needed and the job is done.
 

Mowgli

Tele-Holic
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Posts
533
Location
Southern Jazzville
Let me be clear- I’m not sure either (official disclaimer).

But I think the answer probably lies with the application of both the cloth AND the piping. Why do I think this? Because, from your description, it would seem that neither were stapled; both were probably glued into place.

I have a thought that draws from what was stated above.

Could the piping have been both “aligned with” and “attached to” the grille cloth before application by means of a small “detachable skirt” of material (like the aforementioned wax paper) and initially glued into place “sequentially” with the segment under the Rivera name emblem glued into place first?

Using clamps and a rigid piece of wood or metal to apply pressure to the top segment of both piping and cloth should allow for both proper alignment and stability before stapling.

If it was me, I’d call Rivera and ask them. I suspect they will help.
 

Endless Mike

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Posts
3,560
Location
Arlington, Texas
In reference to and borrowing from another thread of mine here recently "confusion be my epitaph"

Okay, my apologies to all, I'll try again and do my best to be clear(er)

Not sure why this is even built that way. But.... are you saying the grill cloth goes between the maroon covered top board and the frame and is glued there?
-Does it have to be glued or can those two pieces just be separate? How does it mount to the cab? Screwed from the back?
-If it must be glued together with the grill cloth in between, (seems very odd and fragile if I understand this) I would:
- finish putting the grill cloth on the bare frame,
-place both on a flat table and glue the seam/grill cloth. Use two pipe clamps or long bar clamps to squeeze the joint together and let it dry.
-Gluing the top panel to folded over grill cloth seems useless.... I'd find a way to mount them separate

Let’s see if I understand it now?? The grille cloth is glued to the exterior flat of that black grille board there, correct? There must be a small amount of cloth that extends beyond the board that is up then held in place by that horizontal piping, correct.
If this is so, then I would consider doing this. Glue the cloth to that flat.…leaving the appropriate amount of cloth outside of that glued portion to fit under the piping. Once again, I would do this gluing first. Use a length of board to press the cloth in place with clamps while the glue dries. I would then install that horizontal piece of piping….before proceeding to stapling the other three sides of the cloth. Heat shrink the cloth if needed and the job is done.

Let me be clear- I’m not sure either (official disclaimer).

But I think the answer probably lies with the application of both the cloth AND the piping. Why do I think this? Because, from your description, it would seem that neither were stapled; both were probably glued into place.

I have a thought that draws from what was stated above.

Could the piping have been both “aligned with” and “attached to” the grille cloth before application by means of a small “detachable skirt” of material (like the aforementioned wax paper) and initially glued into place “sequentially” with the segment under the Rivera name emblem glued into place first?

Using clamps and a rigid piece of wood or metal to apply pressure to the top segment of both piping and cloth should allow for both proper alignment and stability before stapling.

If it was me, I’d call Rivera and ask them. I suspect they will help.
So the grille cloth staples in place along the bottom and sides of the front piece. To answer one question, yes, it attaches to the amp by screws that come through the inside of the front of the amp, the same surface the speakers mount to. But the top portion of the cloth does not staple into place. The top portion glues into that small gap you can see in the second photo, the one of the actual front piece of my amp. The grille cloth that I removed was folded over the bottom edge of that gap.

Schmee, the grille cloth does go in that area, as you described, *BUT* the grille cloth folds over the bottom edge of that small gap shown in the photo and glues onto that edge, with the piping being pushed into that gap to obscure the cloth being glued in there. (all of this is with the frame facing you in correct orientation, the top edge facing up)

Mowgli, you are correct. The top portion of the cloth was *not* stapled into place, but glued. The piping was held in place by being pushed into the gap which was smaller than the piping, which seemed to hold it in place. If the glue was doing that job, you couldn't tell. The piping came out fairly easily once I really pulled one end. To be thorough, the *only* stapling was of the piping and cloth around the right, left and bottom side.

So to Wally, yes, there *is* a small amount of cloth that extends beyond the board. It doesn't glue to the outside front facing portion of the front piece, but in that little 1/4 (approximately) gap that runs horizontal, that is about two to three inches underneath the Rivera name plate in the red top most portion of the piece. Then, more or less as you wrote, the piping is pushed into place and obscures the grille cloth and glue inside that horizontal gap/notch. The only problem I see with gluing the grille cloth to the front outside is that the glue will be visible. Another idea is to just apply glue in the notch, and push the piping into place, glue holding grille cloth and piping in place.

Then piping is placed into that gap after the grille cloth is glued in place.

Mowgli suggested calling Rivera. That is a good idea. When I actually have enough time to stay still and make a phone call without interruption, I will do that. The last four or five weeks has been almost non-stop constant motion due to some family circumstance. Not a great time to do anything, but if I wait, it may be a very long time before I can do anything like this, and I'd like to use the amp. Talk about the most first world of first world problems.

Anyway, the other thought is to just push the piping into place and allow it to be glued into place. Barring any accidents, I won't be doing this again for a long time. Otherwise, to do what they *appear* to have done at the factory, they glued the grill cloth in place, the pushed the piping into place after the glue dried.

I say that, because if I use something to hold the grille cloth in place while the glue dries, in this case a piece of insulated wire just the same size of that gap, I have no idea how I would get the wire back out once the glue dries, without taking the grill cloth and glue with it. Unless I put some sort of lubricant on the piece of insulated wire. So, as I said above, I think it's best to just glue the piping in place, and if I need to do this again, buy new piping.

I sincerely appreciate all the help. Sorry for my less than clear description. I once had a functioning mind, but the last three and a half months have left it less than agile. Hopefully the elaboration above clarifies, rather than further obfuscating.
 

schmee

Telefied
Ad Free Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Posts
22,645
Location
northwest
Can't you just staple the cloth on the top edge of the frame, through the piping instead of glue?
Piping.jpg
 

Endless Mike

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Posts
3,560
Location
Arlington, Texas
Can't you just staple the cloth on the top edge of the frame, through the piping instead of glue?
View attachment 1043386
Well, theoretically. But the gap is so small it would be impossible to get a staple or stapler in there.

The good news is I just came back in from the workshop having successfully glued the grille cloth and piping in place. I'll post some photos later today or tomorrow. I just hope contact cement was the right choice. All of my glues/adhesives have gone missing, so my choices were super glue (no) Elmer's wood glue, Shoe Goo and contact cement.

Once I post the photo of the cloth and piping in place, it will allow for perspective as to how small that gap is. It's about 1/5 of an inch in all directions. It might be slightly deeper than that, but you get the idea. Just enough room for grille cloth and piping.
 

schmee

Telefied
Ad Free Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Posts
22,645
Location
northwest
Well, theoretically. But the gap is so small it would be impossible to get a staple or stapler in there.

The good news is I just came back in from the workshop having successfully glued the grille cloth and piping in place. I'll post some photos later today or tomorrow. I just hope contact cement was the right choice. All of my glues/adhesives have gone missing, so my choices were super glue (no) Elmer's wood glue, Shoe Goo and contact cement.

Once I post the photo of the cloth and piping in place, it will allow for perspective as to how small that gap is. It's about 1/5 of an inch in all directions. It might be slightly deeper than that, but you get the idea. Just enough room for grille cloth and piping.
Ahhh, I finally get it.... it's not two boards.... It's one with a slot in it..?
 

Mowgli

Tele-Holic
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Posts
533
Location
Southern Jazzville
Most, if not all, of the confusion was cleared up with your augmented explanation.

I had a hunch that your aug. explan. was the situation after reading your initial post but was not completely certain; most grille cloths attach by staples on all 4 sides. That Rivera approach is odd to my experience. Thanks for the clarification!

I suspect the "tightness" of the fabric pores in that grille cloth along with the opaque background afforded by the top segment of wood will combine to hide the glue/wood interface pretty well. --- And assuming that neither the fabric nor the piping will absorb the "tacky" contact cement, I suspect the adhesive will be mostly non-visible to the eye (as opposed to invisible; it is hidden, not transparent.).

I think your choice of contact cement was wise regardless of your available adhesives. I've had good luck over the years with that adhesive on various coverings.

Very interested in seeing pictures, too!
 

Endless Mike

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Posts
3,560
Location
Arlington, Texas
Here it is with the grille cloth glued into that gap/notch with the piping in place. I just did what I think Wally suggested - glue the whole shootin' match in place. To heck with it. I used contact cement, so if I need to remove it for some reason, it won't be too hard to remove. from the look and feel of it dried, that seems to be what they used originally.
 

Attachments

  • grille2.jpg
    grille2.jpg
    211.2 KB · Views: 15

Endless Mike

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Posts
3,560
Location
Arlington, Texas
Ahhh, I finally get it.... it's not two boards.... It's one with a slot in it..?
Yes! Or really a small notch.
Most, if not all, of the confusion was cleared up with your augmented explanation.

I had a hunch that your aug. explan. was the situation after reading your initial post but was not completely certain; most grille cloths attach by staples on all 4 sides. That Rivera approach is odd to my experience. Thanks for the clarification!

I suspect the "tightness" of the fabric pores in that grille cloth along with the opaque background afforded by the top segment of wood will combine to hide the glue/wood interface pretty well. --- And assuming that neither the fabric nor the piping will absorb the "tacky" contact cement, I suspect the adhesive will be mostly non-visible to the eye (as opposed to invisible; it is hidden, not transparent.).

I think your choice of contact cement was wise regardless of your available adhesives. I've had good luck over the years with that adhesive on various coverings.

Very interested in seeing pictures, too!
It hides it perfectly. Really the piping does all the work. The fabric is really quite open, but that gives the glue something to grab hold of, and the piping glued in place with it should be just fine.

I've never done this sort of thing before. I'm taking on all sorts of repair projects, electronic and non-electronic just to see what I can do, and to learn. I'm emboldened enough by this to consider, down the line, doing this again but with the cane/basket weave. That would look cool. It's another level up, based on the videos I've seen, but I believe I could pull it off. Not any time soon though.

I'll post more photos of the stapling/stapled in place of the remaining sides and the finished, reassembled amp, as I finish it.
 

Endless Mike

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Posts
3,560
Location
Arlington, Texas
So here are the rest of the photos from this process/project. From the gluing the grille to the back side, That process done, but without the piping around the sides. Then with the piping, and finally, back in the amp.

Thanks to all of you for your help and input! It really helped motivate me, and to see that there were other ways to approach this than I had been considering.

It isn't factory perfect (read: even) but I don't care. I'm just satisfied I was able to do this on my own, without having to pay someone to do it for me, and that I know I can take these sorts of things on in the future.

Grille3.jpg Grille5.jpg grille6.jpg Grille7.jpg
 

Wally

Telefied
Ad Free Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Posts
42,701
Location
Lubbock, TX
Okay, so next t8me perfect your failed attempt at using grille cloth to emulate that part ‘moving wave’ cloth like was on Airline amp Inhad recently..
E353373D-2A36-4CF0-98D0-855315388C3C.jpeg


Josh8ng…but seriously..it probably could be done. It would also probably be harder than getting grille cloth dead to eights correct…which is also something
E353373D-2A36-4CF0-98D0-855315388C3C.jpeg
I have never done. I would have stretched and stapled the other three sides, though.
 

Endless Mike

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Posts
3,560
Location
Arlington, Texas
Okay, so next t8me perfect your failed attempt at using grille cloth to emulate that part ‘moving wave’ cloth like was on Airline amp Inhad recently..


Josh8ng…but seriously..it probably could be done. It would also probably be harder than getting grille cloth dead to eights correct…which is also something I have never done. I would have stretched and stapled the other three sides, though.
Wally, can you explain the stretched and stapled other three sides? I would like to really be able to do this right, and it's clearly something within the grasp of mere mortals, such as myself.

I'm thinking of replacing it with basket weave down the line. Right now I'm happy to have a new grille cloth intact that only cost me the 19.00 I paid for the material. But in a year or so, once all these other things in my life have settled down and are behind me, I know that urge will reassert itself. So I'd like to improve those skills.
 

Wally

Telefied
Ad Free Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Posts
42,701
Location
Lubbock, TX
Mike, there are great tutorials online showing various methods.
With the situation with that Rivera being glued across the top, I would have looked at pulling the bottom taut and stapling it and then working the sides. Some people build a stretching frame type of system, but I so rarely do a grille that I have not gone that far. I pull it all by hand. Then, I use a heat gun to CAREFULLY shrink the cloth to get it taut enough so that the edges are neat and the cloth does not buzz against the board or the edges of the cab. And…yes….I have had to redo a grille because I burned through the cloth….and I was almost done with the shrinking…last corner. My hand for some reason slowed down or repeated a circle too soon…poof! There was a hole. Do it all over. I have read that in the old Fender shop there was a 50 gallon drum with a fire in it for that shrinking….pre-OSHA days, of course.
 

Telenator

Doctor of Teleocity
Vendor Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2005
Posts
15,103
Location
Vermont
Why not just send it to Rivera? They'll repair that and send it right back to you and it will be perfect!
 

Wally

Telefied
Ad Free Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Posts
42,701
Location
Lubbock, TX
Why not just send it to Rivera? They'll repair that and send it right back to you and it will be perfect!
$35 shipping estimated….charge to regrilling???? $50-75 if they are feeling generous???
I can understand @Endless Mike’s desire to spend only $19 on the job while learning about regrilling. Ymmv….
 

Mowgli

Tele-Holic
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Posts
533
Location
Southern Jazzville
Mike, that’s not a bad 1st effort!

My first attempt was so “imperfect” that I pulled out about 5/8ths of the staples and tried to correct it… and that was after already correcting the initial top to bottom stretching and letting the fabric warm in sun for half the day under mild tension!

The result was much better after this but still less than ideal. Then I pulled out the hair dryer (I thought the heat gun would be too hot) and it helped a little more. It’s now “good enough” - you have to look for the imperfections (they are there).

I think Wally’s advice about the order of stapling (that’s what I did - top to bottom first and checking alignment assiduously after every few staples… and I still missed the mark a little bit!) and his admonition about the application of heat are both on target.

As a general rule: There are “recoverable errors,” like correcting a misspelling made in pencil, and “unrecoverable errors,” like hitting someone with a car while intoxicated. Wally’s admonition about being careful with heat is the latter (obviously)… so allot a good amount of time, study up on your approach and don’t be in a hurry or allow distractions to enter your effort.

Growing impatient is one of my biggest flaws and when I resist that temptation to hurry, things usually end up better!

Preparation, patience and persistence are the hallmarks of success (Geez, I sound like an old school sports coach giving a stock motivational speech- LOL).
 




Top