Relief ... 17th or last?

[goonie]

Fender's official setup guide recommends checking relief at the 8th fret, with capo on 1st and finger on last. So that's what I've always done. Many internet experts recommend fretting at the 17th fret, because that's where the neck joins the body so that's also where the truss rod starts to have an effect. Hmm, makes sense, I think.

What is the tdpri wisdom on this?

Oh and by the way, if you answer something along the lines of 'hey what does it matter, just go with whatever feels right'...I will find you, and I will kill you. Seriously though I'm very happy for you and your great feel but for me and my guitars, what works is having a benchmark.

 

[superbadj]

I can't imagine having the string run from 1st fret to 21st (fender guidelines) or 1st fret to 17th (other one) will have a gigantic change.

I usually do the full-neck measurement. I don't know the exact relief I like, honestly. I eyeball it and go by feel. But that's how I do my own benchmarking.

 

[goonie]

I can't imagine having the string run from 1st fret to 21st (fender guidelines) or 1st fret to 17th (other one) will have a gigantic change.

The strat I just measured is 0.010 at the 17th and close to 0.015 at the 21st. So on that guitar the difference is significant, but maybe it's an outlier.

 

[goonie]

I usually do the full-neck measurement. I don't know the exact relief I like, honestly. I eyeball it and go by feel. But that's how I do my own benchmarking.

I do go by 'feel' to some extent. I can generally feel when the neck has too much relief as the guitar loses its 'slinkiness'. But I rely on a feeler gauge to readjust. These eyeballs can't pick the difference between 0.010 and 0.015.

 

[superbadj]

Well certainly, the more curved the neck is the more difference you'll get in the two measurements.

Might I suggest that either could work when you're using feeler gauges, as long as you follow a consistent methodology?

Using either approach, do you know the measurement you prefer to hit?

As long as you're consistent, you should get consistent results. I would tend to agree that the amount of curve, if any, at the very high end of the neck (17th to 21st/22nd fret) is very, very little (if any). So the 1st to 17th fret method would focus only on the area of the neck that's curving. So maybe go with that, determine the measurement you like that nails the feel/slinkiness you prefer, and use that as your benchmark.

 

[goonie]

Well certainly, the more curved the neck is the more difference you'll get in the two measurements.

Might I suggest that either could work when you're using feeler gauges, as long as you follow a consistent methodology?

Using either approach, do you know the measurement you prefer to hit?

As long as you're consistent, you should get consistent results. I would tend to agree that the amount of curve, if any, at the very high end of the neck (17th to 21st/22nd fret) is very, very little (if any). So the 1st to 17th fret method would focus only on the area of the neck that's curving. So maybe go with that, determine the measurement you like that nails the feel/slinkiness you prefer, and use that as your benchmark.

Yes, it probably doesn't matter where you measure as long as you're consistent.

Just checked another strat and a similar story, a little under 0.010 1st-17th and around 0.015 1st-21st. Normally I would be thinking it's about time to dial out some relief but I'm leaning towards leaving as is and changing the benchmark to 0.010 1st-17th. It feels fine as is and plays well.

 

[Iceman]

I clamp it at the first fret and the 17th fret and go for .010 relief at the eighth fret.

 

[Mid Life Crisis]

If the truss rod starts to have an effect at the 17th fret, doesn't that mean that it has no effect from that point to the 21st? In which case, it wouldn't matter which fret you used, as the string should lay flat between the 17th and 21st frets? Therefore both are correct.

Or maybe I'm being stupid.

 

[tfsails]

How can you get a reading other than 0.00" at the 21st fret if you're pressing the string to the fingerboard at the 21st fret?

The .010" at the 17th is properly measured with a capo at the first fret and your finger holding the string down at the 21st.

That measurement at the 21st sounds like a quickie check on the guitar's action. That should be read at the 17th fret as well. and should be 4/64" or 5/64" depending on which string it is.

 

[charlie chitlin]

IME, on a bolt-on, the rod affects the entire neck, so I measure it as such.
On set-neck guitars, I measure from where the neck meets the body.

 

[Bongocaster]

I don't go by feel but I do go by eye. When the weather changes and I need to tighten or loosen my truss rod I can remember fairly well what it looked like when it was working nicely before.

 

[surfoverb]

i wouldnt worry too much about it

 

[Diagoras]

I've always used the 1st/17th-fret method with .010" relief at the 8th fret. That just feels right to me. YMMV

How can you get a reading other than 0.00" at the 21st fret if you're pressing the string to the fingerboard at the 21st fret?

Uhm, in that case the relief would be measured halfway between the 1st and 21st frets.... so like the 9th fret.

 

[jhundt]

I listen to what Fender says, because Fender invented the Fender guitar, and because they have built about 10 million of them over the years. The Fender spec has always worked just fine for me. It is a very good place to start. Sure you can do something else, if you know what you're doing and why. You can adjust the valves on your Norton motorcycle to your own specs, too - but you might blow up the motor! Don't ask me how I know...

 

[DW Calumet]

The truss rod has no effect past the point where it joins the body. The truss rod can only flex if there is nothing to impede it (like the neck being securely bolted or glued to the body).

Because of this it shouldn't make a discernible difference if you check relief at the 17th or 21st fret, because ideally the fretboard/frets should be level at that point.

I left the concept of "fret fall away" out of the above. Ive heard various theories on its reasoning but ive never found it necessary in achieving the lowest action.

 

[Toto'sDad]

I used to be a proponent of adjusting things by using a ruler, and getting it to Fender specs etc. I guess I thought I was doing it right. Then one day I started doing things by feel, and by sound and I reckon I'll just keep doing what I'm doing. Even my bass and acoustic guitars play, and sound better once I just started listening and feeling the guitars for myself. Each guitar is different, just like the players, one size of underwear doesn't fit everyone.

 

[goonie]

i wouldnt worry too much about it

Not worried, just curious. It will help me live longer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8893314

 

[goonie]

If the truss rod starts to have an effect at the 17th fret, doesn't that mean that it has no effect from that point to the 21st? In which case, it wouldn't matter which fret you used, as the string should lay flat between the 17th and 21st frets? Therefore both are correct.

Or maybe I'm being stupid.

No, you're just assuming the string is parallel to the fingerboard between the 17th and 21st. Which it probably isn't. See the exaggerated diagram below.

 

[brookdalebill]

I just "eyeball" the high E string, it will be straight because it's under tension, and adjust the truss rod till the neck is what I call "dead straight".
I then adjust the saddle height to follow the radius of the fingerboard (according to the player's taste), then set the intonation.
Easy peasy.
It works for me, provided there are no fret or other major issues.

 

[GigsbyBoyUK]

As I never use a capo to check relief I guess I've always done it at a place where I can press down the string and check relief with the same hand, which seems to be around fret 15-16.

But I guess holding the string down at every fret from about 15 up, and checking the 'half-way' relief for each hold down would be best.

Ultimately, the main aim of getting relief 'right' is to remove buzz, so it's the ears and not the eyes that ultimately settle things for me.

As for just accepting Fender's setting because they are Fender, I'd rather do whatever works best for me and each guitar in turn. In any case, I very much doubt that every Fender employee works in exactly the same way.