relicing a new finish

[Dyllpan]

I have a '04 American tele and it's very shiny.
How do I make it in that fantastic dull vintage finish?
Something like the picture of the Roy's '53 tele.
How do you properly relic/age new Finnish? With some very thin sand paper?
Thanks a bunch.

 

[Bones]

Read this thread to prepare yourself for the replies you are going to get.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/58146-i-dont-get-why-relic-new-guitar.html

 

[Lostheart]

Unfortunately you cannot make a convincing relic out of an 04 American Tele because the finish is either Nitro with a thick Poly undercoat (and boy is it thick...I'm currently taking it off a 52RI!) or Poly altogether and those you cannot age or it will look odd.
You would have to strip the finish off the body and neck and have it refinished in Nitro...a new paintjob will set you back about 500 US$...

 

[Bones]

This is an MIM standard that I have been messing around trying different relicing ideas on. Not for any reason other then to see if it can be done. Hasn't hurt the playability or tone of the guitar one bit. Probably has not helped either.

Here's some updated pics. I aged the exposed wood and also componded and polished the finish to bring back a soft shine and feather the edges a bit.


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[Bones]

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[Dyllpan]

Thanks

Dude that looks great. I am glad to see that you didn't do too much damage.
How did you get that dull satin like finisch? Or did it came like that?
That's my point, I don't whant to do allot to it, just make the a bit duller.
Less mirror like, you know?

And I think that is the problem with fake looking relics. They've got the rusted hardware and yellow/green pickguards and the paint chips, but they still have got the shine of a new guitar. That's why they look fake.

If you look at vintage guitars: the thing that makes them look old is not the damage, but that old dull paint. They've all got it. Wether it's a guitar a violin.

So how do I make my finnish dull without scratching it? Is a very fine sand paper the way to go?

Thanks again.

 

[Bones]

This is the "twin" to this guitar, they both started out as special edition mIM standards, very thick, very shiny poly coating.


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Now, you must understand that the potential for de-valuing your guitar is very real once you start messing with the finish. Reading some of the relicing threads here will give you an idea of how lots of people feel about it.. I only paid a little over $200.00 for this guitar so I didn't mind experimenting.

If you want to commit to it, first try a few different grades of fine sandpaper and/or steel wool under the area that will be covered by the pickguard.

You will probably notice that the finish will become hazy and white when you do this. That's where car polish comes in later, it will restore the color after you have dulled the gloss down. If your gi=uitar has a solid color, you will eventually hit the primer coat if you sand it down enough before you hit natural wood, so if you just want a cduller look, be very careful if the primer starts to show, you wont be able to get the color back after that.

I eventually ended up taking a belt sand to this guitar in order to get the clear coat as thin as possible in ornder to really relic it. It's still not done, I do it in stages and live with it for a few weeks before I attempt to go further.
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[Dyllpan]

thanks

I probably failed to mention is that I have got a 3 tone sunburst finish.
Will that method work too?

How aggressive is it the sand paper?
I just want a subtle dull finish. Nothing too noticeable. Not as much as you did. I still want it shiny, just as mirror like as your twin (and mine) guitar. Like it looks about to be 15 to 20 years old.
Not like the most relics who would look about to be a 100 years old. They look older than the real '53 tele's.

How did you do the rust? And the control plate?

It truly looks awsome! Just goes to show that you don't need a poly finish!
It really looks old, not relic!

 

[Bones]

I probably failed to mention is that I have got a 3 tone sunburst finish.
Will that method work too?

How aggressive is it the sand paper?
I just want a subtle dull finish. Nothing too noticeable. Not as much as you did. I still want it shiny, just as mirror like as your twin (and mine) guitar. Like it looks about to be 15 to 20 years old.
Not like the most relics who would look about to be a 100 years old. They look older than the real '53 tele's.

How did you do the rust? And the control plate?

It truly looks awsome! Just goes to show that you don't need a poly finish!
It really looks old, not relic!

The sunburst will have a thick clear coat ove rit, so if you just want to take the shine off and not thin it down, try some of those 3M "ScotchBrite" pads and then you can use a polish to even it out nice.

I just taped up this black body and scotch brited it for about 30 seconds.

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[Bones]

Here's a natural light shot with no flash. As you can see it really doesn't take much to take the shine off, it's a little harder to get it back though

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[Dyllpan]

thanks again

Is car polish the best to use?

Do you some pictures of some other guitars you have done?
I realy like it doesn't look forced like 90% of the relics.

 

[Bones]

No, this is my first one.

Just take your time and don't be too aggressive and can always go further, but it's hard to come back

Since most modern day car polishes are formulated for poly finishes, they seem to do a good job on the guitar bodies

 

[Bones]

oh and as far as the hardware goes, i don't know what will work on that heavy chrome that comes on the American series ones. I switched the hardware of of this to vintage style Allparts stuff and aged it with a mixture of non-detergent ammonia, un-iodized salt and white vinegar. The control plate I rubbed down with scotchbrite and then treated it with the solution to rust up the screws and discolor it a bit. You can use muriatic acid, but I like to use less toxic things.

Also a note about polishes, don't use wax, use products like polishing compounds and swirl removers., the guitar will smell bad for about 48 hours, but the results are good.

 

[63dot]

oh and as far as the hardware goes, i don't know what will work on that heavy chrome that comes on the American series ones. I switched the hardware of of this to vintage style Allparts stuff and aged it with a mixture of non-detergent ammonia, un-iodized salt and white vinegar. The control plate I rubbed down with scotchbrite and then treated it with the solution to rust up the screws and discolor it a bit. You can use muriatic acid, but I like to use less toxic things.

Also a note about polishes, don't use wax, use products like polishing compounds and swirl removers., the guitar will smell bad for about 48 hours, but the results are good.

you should go to work for fender...your results are really cool

i tried the same type of thing with a cheap fernandez tele copy but i already had a very thin finish on it from the get go and i always wondered how somebody would relic a guitar with a heavy polyester finish

to age my parts, i put them in water and on the roof and let the elements do their thing

 

[63dot]

i can see how you reliced the body, but getting a convincing neck wear on in would be considerably harder, right?

i love the look of the neck on clapton's blackie, and the old teles and strats that nancy wilson of heart plays

 

[Bones]

i can see how you reliced the body, but getting a convincing neck wear on in would be considerably harder, right?

Yes, very true, I am working on the neck very slowly, because it's a nice neck and I don't want to screw it up, it is probably going to be a while.

Thank you for your comment in your previous post.

 

[Ice9]

Yes, very true, I am working on the neck very slowly, because it's a nice neck and I don't want to screw it up, it is probably going to be a while.

Thank you for your comment in your previous post.

Bones.....

I find your "reliced MIM" quite interesting.........

An accident down in my shop caused a pretty good sized ding on my white MIM.Being one to try to make lemonade when someone throws lemons,I figured it would be easier to make the ding look like wear.

Well,that didnt work.The finish where the ding was came off in a big piece.Then I figured I would just go all of the way,and take the finish off.

The finish came off ofthe guitar the same way that an egg shell would come off of a hard cooked egg.It came off in HUGE pieces,the finish was not bound to the wood at all,except for a bit on the sides.

With just a small putty knife,and the drum sander on my Dremel,I had the finish TOTALLY off of the guitar in a little less then 40 minutes.No chemicals needed.

The guitar probably weighs at least a pound less.

I gave the body a few dings,and then mixed up a clear orangy brown clear acrylic enamel matched as best as I could to some of the old Teles I saw in some of the books I have.
I made the stain thin,and kept adding coats until I got the proper hue.

I gave it a dust coat of laquer,and then hit it with some brown to fill in the dings.

I will have to say that the results were outstanding,and the guitar seems much more resonant to me.I really liked this guitar before,but now I just love it,cant put it down.

I have some ideas for the neck,but like yours,this one also has a great feel,and I dont want to screw it up.

Id be interested in hearing of any ideas you might have as far as the neckis concerned.

BTW,your MIM looks GREAT!!! Thanks for the pics!!!!

Mike

 

[Bones]

Hi Mike and thanks , I would really like to see pictures of that!

What you described with the finish coming off in huge pieces is fairly common from what I understand, it really is more like a shell than a finish and it was something I was weary of when I started this project. It's also something that will keep you from getting realistic stress cracks because the finish is so brittle it's likely to fall off whever cracks intersect.

As far as the neck goes, I just started an experiment today where I waxed the neck with a paste wax that dried to a white haze, then I played all my favorite riffs and that wore the wax off in the spots where I play. Now I have a map of where my wear spots would be and will use that as a guide and just procede very slowly with 600 grit paper and just try to get barely through to the wood so the dirt and oils can get in there.

 

[Ice9]

I'll try and post some pics if my digital camera will cooperate.

On the neck,I used a product called Zip Strip to take the finish off of the back.I dont know,I really like the feel of bare wood on my hands.

On the fingerboard,again,I looked at pics of old Teles in my books.I took the finish off to the bare wood where the "wear spots" would be with a Dremel with a wire wheel.It called for a steady hand,but it worked.

WHat I am thinking of doing is air brushing the neck with a clear orange home made stain.I may or may not change the decal,but if I do,I'll take the top of the headstock to bare wood,and scuff the finish on the rest.Again,clear orange,then decal,and then a coat of laquer to seal it.

The "dirt"on the fingerboard is throwing me.I have not had great results with the stain method I used on the body.Maybe I'll try the airbrush next.

I had no interest what so ever in owning a "reliced" guitar.But I will have to say,so far this has really been a fun project,and a learning experience as well.

Mike

 

[goldtopper]

You can use muriatic acid, but I like to use less toxic things.

Amen to that!
When I did my chrome with Muriatic acid, which works great- I had my shotgun slug- barrel on the back of my workbench. It was a good two feet from the acid. The fumes turned my barrel into a 24" corndog!