Refinishing my Squier Jaguar (brushing nitro)
- Thread starter j-stylez
- Start date
The color was ok, but I got bored of it. Also, I'm sort of giving this guitar a vintage vibe, with the lacquer finish and some pickups I am going to wind to Vintage Specs once my pickup winder is complete (but that's for another thread...).
I want to feel like I'm in the 60/70s when I pick up that guitar and plug it into my amp. And it is very satisfying to do this stuff with simple tools, no fancy machinery. You know, feels like honest work after sitting at my computer all day for my job. So I like to find my own way of doing things... Sometimes it goes horribly wrong, but most of the time it works out
I have a good feeling about this one. By the way, I dont need clear lacquer on this as a top Coat, the lacquer I'm using can be polished.
I want to feel like I'm in the 60/70s when I pick up that guitar and plug it into my amp. And it is very satisfying to do this stuff with simple tools, no fancy machinery. You know, feels like honest work after sitting at my computer all day for my job. So I like to find my own way of doing things... Sometimes it goes horribly wrong, but most of the time it works out
I have a good feeling about this one. By the way, I dont need clear lacquer on this as a top Coat, the lacquer I'm using can be polished.
bendercaster
Tele-Afflicted
Very interesting. I'm curious to see how this turns out. I have the same guitar. I like the color on mine, but I've always wondered how much weight that thick plastic finish adds.
stratisfied
Friend of Leo's
That's an old wive's tale. As long as the lacguer is sound and dry and you are applying oil based polyurethane like I stated, it works just fine. Woodworkers apply polyurethane over sanding sealer all the time. What do you think sanding sealer is? Hint: it's lacquer.
Over the years I have developed a sensitivity to spraying lacquer and try to limit it's use to out of doors. During the winter when I must work indoors, I use wipe-on polyurethane for finishing the gunstocks when doing both refinishing and preservations. Preservations on vintage rifle and shotguns are finish restorations as opposed to completely stripping and refinishing and many of these vintage firearms were originally finished in lacquer. I repair the dents, dings scratches and chips from hunting via lacquer drop fills, removing as little of the original finish and patina as possible and then selectively recoat portions of the stock or the entire stock dependant upon the amount of wear. I apply the polyurethane directly over the lacquer and have no issues whatsoever with adhesion or finished appearance. My clients are literally speechless when I hand them back a vintage firearm that retains it's aged appearance but is free from dings, scratches and other damage.
It's always advisable to sand the lacquer to insure adhesion but in my case, I often blend a polyurethane coated section by feather-edging into an untouched lacquer section along a round-over or contour line. In many cases, I am unable to sand where this transition occurs but have never encountered an appearance or adhesion issue.
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I laid on another layer with the new brush. This will make the doubtful spectators pleased, as it means heading deep into brush stroke county again!
But fear not, the adept sander will get back to work in a couple of days to get that evened out...
Main goal of this layer was to fill some low spots that appeared after the first sanding session.
I didnt aim for a complete cover here, that is why it looks very blotchy again.
But fear not, the adept sander will get back to work in a couple of days to get that evened out...
Main goal of this layer was to fill some low spots that appeared after the first sanding session.
I didnt aim for a complete cover here, that is why it looks very blotchy again.
Boreas
Doctor of Teleocity
Looking better - at least in this light.
Personally, I wouldn't focus as much on filling low spots as I would sanding the high spots without sanding through the low spots. IME, THICK nitro should be avoided because of its tendency to crack/check. But perhaps that is the look you are going for.
Greg2222
TDPRI Member
It's not an old wives tale. Lacquer is evaporative and unstable, whereas polyurethane cures chemically and is stable. Sanding sealer *can* be lacquer . . .or it can be a number of other things that are not lacquer.
You are working with years-old or decades-old lacquer finishes that have mostly gassed off. That is not the boat he is in.
MTPoteet
Tele-Holic
stratisfied
Friend of Leo's
Not in my experience. Here is a Weatherby Vanguard originally finished in urethane. There was a long split running through a knot and one side of the rifle was nicely figured while the side with the split was light colored and very ugly. Based on past work I'd done for the owner, he asked if I could repair the split and improve the stock's appearance making the two sides match better.
Since I would be graining the stock rather than just staining the figureless wood darker, I chose to leave the original polyurethane finish intact. I did my usual lacquer drop fills on the dings and deep scratches as it is much easier to sand and leaves the surrounding finish intact. I repaired the split with a crazy glue drop fill inside and out and then sprayed the entire side with satin lacquer in preparation to faux grain the wood. That's 1 instance of lacquer applied over polyurethane with no issue.
The wiping stain I use for graining does not stick to polyurethane finishes but spreads smoothly and evenly over a satin lacquer basecoat. I applied the wiping stain over the freshly lacquered side introducing figure lines over the wood.
After the stain dried a few days, I sprayed satin lacquer over the stain. I do this because the wiping polyurethane disturbs the graining when applied, basically dissolving it and wiping it away. It also allows the stain to flow out slightly, making softer edges so as not to appear painted on.
After a few days of drying, I applied multiple coats of oil based Wipe-On Polyurethane to the entire stock to insure a matching gloss all the way around. That's two instances of polyurethane over lacquer on the same project. The results were stunning.
Before (fugliest piece of wood I've ever seen on a Weatherby):
Here's the other side in comparison:
Grained over satin lacquer:
Finished with gloss poly over satin lacquer sealcoat:
No adhesion issues, no lifting of the finish, no problems whatsoever. In my experience, poly over lacquer has never been a problem.
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Interesting topic, but I will not be using any other finish products in this project besides the Vintage white nitrocellulose lacqier. This project is all about brushing nitro my man!
Cant wait to get my hands Wet with the good old 400 again. But Patience you must have...
Cant wait to get my hands Wet with the good old 400 again. But Patience you must have...
Raising Arizona
TDPRI Member
Interesting… I’ve nitro’d my fare share of guitars with a can… never with a brush..
I can see the finish coming to life tho… bad thing about cans, you can’t control the mix or how much comes out…
One finish is like to try. Crack open magic markers, mix with alcohol then rub the ink/mix into sanded wood… I’ve seen some amazing cool wood grain finishes… then of course clear, wet sand and buff..
If your looking for a great non-abrasive polishing compound, 3M Finess-it II… it’s the best
I can see the finish coming to life tho… bad thing about cans, you can’t control the mix or how much comes out…
One finish is like to try. Crack open magic markers, mix with alcohol then rub the ink/mix into sanded wood… I’ve seen some amazing cool wood grain finishes… then of course clear, wet sand and buff..
If your looking for a great non-abrasive polishing compound, 3M Finess-it II… it’s the best
It is a bit hard to capture during night time here without proper backlight, but I did take out the 400 grit again to knock off the high spots. Looks like good coverage, so I will go very careful with the 400, switch to 800 in a bit once the runs and brushmarks are gone. Then touch up any sand through spots and let it sit to gas off.
I decided to do the coarse wet sanding earlier, to allow solvents to evaporate as easily as possible, as I do think you are right that my problem will be too thick lacquer rather than too thin in the long run.
So I am taking care of the major high spots first, then do the sides and tricky inside curves. Once that is mostly leveled I will carefully fill any spots that still lack lacquer (what an expression that is!). Then wait for at least a week, better two, before giving proper sanding a shot.
I decided to do the coarse wet sanding earlier, to allow solvents to evaporate as easily as possible, as I do think you are right that my problem will be too thick lacquer rather than too thin in the long run.
So I am taking care of the major high spots first, then do the sides and tricky inside curves. Once that is mostly leveled I will carefully fill any spots that still lack lacquer (what an expression that is!). Then wait for at least a week, better two, before giving proper sanding a shot.
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Greg2222
TDPRI Member
I never said there was a problem with lacquer over poly. It is poly over lacquer that is often a problem. Glad your project worked out though.
stratisfied
Friend of Leo's
I miss-typed and just corrected my concluding statement. If you read the post, I applied poly as a final finish over the lacquer used to seal off the graining and the repairs.
If you apply the lacquer properly (thin coat), you can top coat with the wipe-on poly without issues as my experience proves. It may not be conventional but, I find that using lacquer to seal off repairs, graining and faux finishing before applying wipe-on polyurethane as a top coat works just fine.
Some would argue that shellac would be a better choice but my experience w. rattle can shellac did not provide a smooth surface and sanding on top of faux finishing, you risk a sand-through destroying your hard work. The satin lacquer yields a flawless surface over which to apply the thin Wipe-on poly without sanding
If you check various fine woodworking sites, they all agree you can apply oil based polyurethane successfully over lacquer as long as the lacquer has had adequate drying time and conditions.
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Weekend is here! Just hit the box with some more of that 400 G. Took off the high spots, this time a bit more cautious as to not cause any sand throughs. Had one on the upper bout inside curve. The lacquer is still quite thin once I level it.
Just aiming to take enough off to get ready for final sanding in lets say, about two weeks. The sides are the hardest, surprise surprise... It is really tempting to focus on single spots but dont ever do that, always work on areas. Slowly take down the high spots, and when in doubt leave some extra for the finer grits later on.
By the way check out my wicked sanding pad. I was using an aluminium block first, totally flat. That is too hard, it focuses pressure on the edges of the sanding block too much. Better to use something with a little bit of relief. My tool of choice is now a piece of an old... Mousepad! And it has mice on it. They are taking a bath. Have a look at this little fella here!
Just aiming to take enough off to get ready for final sanding in lets say, about two weeks. The sides are the hardest, surprise surprise... It is really tempting to focus on single spots but dont ever do that, always work on areas. Slowly take down the high spots, and when in doubt leave some extra for the finer grits later on.
By the way check out my wicked sanding pad. I was using an aluminium block first, totally flat. That is too hard, it focuses pressure on the edges of the sanding block too much. Better to use something with a little bit of relief. My tool of choice is now a piece of an old... Mousepad! And it has mice on it. They are taking a bath. Have a look at this little fella here!
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stratisfied
Friend of Leo's
Are you planning on a clear lacquer topcoat or just buffing out the white?
No clear coat, as I think that would mess with my bottom layer and cause problems. Also, it's not required, as this white nitrocellulose lacquer can be polished straight without needing a top clear coat.
I did some more careful sanding and will have to do a careful stroke or two of lacquer in a few spots. The layer is still very thin, so my sanding caused a touch of see-through in one or two spots on the sides (you can see it on this picture, there is a dark Spot on the side where the wood below shines through) . And a few spots I will drop-fill. Then it can go to dry I think.
I did some more careful sanding and will have to do a careful stroke or two of lacquer in a few spots. The layer is still very thin, so my sanding caused a touch of see-through in one or two spots on the sides (you can see it on this picture, there is a dark Spot on the side where the wood below shines through) . And a few spots I will drop-fill. Then it can go to dry I think.
58Bassman
Tele-Holic
It does, but it needs to be done carefully and it needs to be thinned. People paint boats using a technique called 'roll and tip', but they used brushes before rollers were invented and the finish can be very smooth.
I would use a random orbital sander to smooth that.
Good luck
