Reconsidering the value of the TLC-62B

[japr]

Hello and nice to meet you all. I'm a massive, massive fan of the 1962 Telecaster Custom in 3ts. It's my favorite guitar of all time. My first guitar I bought was a 2005 CIJ TL62US, and it served as my main guitar for many years, until I recently acquired a TLC-62B and fell in love all over again, which quickly led to me also acquiring a TLC-52, which I had never heard of before! I'd like to propose to everyone that maybe most people have been wrong about what the TLCs are, and I think I can explain why so many people have such drastic experiences with the quality of their "62 reissues."

Take a look through the Fender Japan Twang catalogs. If you check, there is NO TL-62 model with 3-section spiral saddles until 1994! All of the TL-62s and TL-62Bs before that come with 3 section chrome saddles, which are NOT the same as the '62 custom spiral saddles at all. The transition to the spiral grooves for the catalog models occurs in 1994; before then all TL-62s in every catalog year are depicted with the 3 section chrome saddles instead (https://www.fender.com/products/3-saddle-american-vintage-telecaster-bridge-assembly-chrome).

1993: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/sl70....pdf?rlkey=t0jvkumtywzc5pvbhomsxzcrm&e=2&dl=0
1994: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/qt81....pdf?rlkey=jq46ui9imc38x8u2ro35p16j6&e=1&dl=0

This means that everyone who has a TLC-62B which came out before 1992 (which is ALL OF THEM!!!) may have a special guitar with perhaps better components/build than average, or at least some customized specs. Especially those of you with TLC-62BEXs (those are EXTRADS! I've confirmed this with a gentleman who worked at Fujigen from 1990 and is friends with Mr. Sugimoto who spearheaded the Extrad project and formed the Custom Edition team). Please check the guts and pickups before following the common advice that "FJs have great builds and bad electronics." You might NOT want to immediately swap the innards out! I've been documenting the difference between the lower tier catalog line TL-62B-65s and the nicer TLC guitars. Some of these TLC guitars come with some really good specs. My TLC-52 has vintage Seymour Duncans! I've seen TLC-62Bs out there with nice vintage CTS pots.

Please, please, please make sure that we preserve these amazing pieces of history. The TLS, TLA, and TLC line guitars are some of Fender Japan's absolutely finest work. If you can, find yourself a nice one and keep it for life to stop people from ruining more of these than they already have.

Thanks.


SIDE QUESTION: Does anybody even have a TL-62B-65 body that lacks the S circle stamp in red, or has the 3-section chrome saddles without the spiral grooves? These things really seem to randomly appear in 1985 and then disappear around 1990 or so, and NONE of the ones I can find have the 3-section chrome saddles; they're all the '62 custom style spiral groove saddles.

Examples of the TL-62B-65 body with '62 custom saddle and S stamp:
- https://www.ebay.com/itm/197545808167
- https://reverb.com/item/86500581-19...50-candy-apple-red-a-serial-japan-mij-fujigen
- https://reverb.com/item/90785594-fe...ecaster-custom-three-tone-sunburst-w-hardcase
- https://reverb.com/item/91210717-19...0-candy-apple-red-near-mint-japan-mij-fujigen

TLC-62B body guitars:
- https://www.ebay.com/itm/267266069508
- https://reverb.com/item/90444327-fender-telecaster-custom-62-reissue-1985-86-candy-apple-red
- https://www.ebay.com/itm/316471496741
- https://reverb.com/item/68547763-le...le-bound-sunburst-mij-relic-blues-special-hsc
- https://reverb.com/item/39819656-rare-vintage-mij-japan-fender-tlc-62b-a-serial-number-7lb-6-9oz
- https://reverb.com/item/91158649-fe...-reissue-left-handed-mij-rare-candy-apple-red
- https://reverb.com/item/86566907-fe...-custom-mij-1989-sunburst-made-in-japan-w-bag

 

[japr]

Update: the build is so good because of Fujigen's process engineering. The bodies and necks were made such that even though each was stamped with its intended production model, the quality was ensured to be high enough that when a body or neck was damaged/unusable, a closely graded neck or body could be substituted so long as the wood was correct.

In fact, one of the only two documented TL62 Extrads I've found thus far was assembled on a TL-62B-65 body! As demonstrated above, that's the same grade as the TLC-62B (the price point was moved from the end to after the body type, and changed from a number to a letter grade at some point).

Proof: https://amethystguitars.hatenablog.com/entry/15491641

I believe this explains why the "62 reissues" from 1985 to 1990ish are so killer. They used a comparable build as the top tier Extrad teles, just with different amount of individual handwork and lower spec innards.

However! If you find yourself one around 1985/86, I've noticed those tend to have nicer wiring/switches. And personally, I think the stock Japanese "TL Vintage" style pickups that come in these are awesome!

So I recommend always check your guitar thoroughly and play it a bit before deciding what to replace, then maybe do one upgrade at a time. Get a good set up and maybe upgrade the circuitry before deciding how you feel about the pickups.

I have only found two confirmed TL62 style Extrads, and several suspected. From 85 to about 87-88, you would only know by the model number ending in EX, after that there is a decal on the back of the headstock, per FuzzFaced and a gentleman named Scott Zimmerman who worked at Fujigen from about 1990.

I'm beginning to think his advice needs further context or clarification - based on his words at literal interpretation, a TLC-62BEX from ~85-88ish "should" be an extrad, but perhaps it would need to be TL-62BEX or similar (he confirmed a TL-52EX as a supposed early extrad recently).

I have found proof of two, as mentioned, for the 62 model. One TL62 Extrad with a bound TL-62B-65 body and one with a TL62-140L (unbound lefty!).

Here's the lefty if anybody feels rich:

https://reverb.com/item/49832105-lefty-vintage-fender-japan-custom-edition-tele-nitrocellulose-lacquer-sunburst-telecaster-collectors-hsc-1-of-1

Peep the fading custom edition logo, note the neck and pocket markings. A fun discovery, this is the third neck I've found with アメ#2ラッカー on it. Both of these 62 Extrads, and my TLC-52 ORDERMADE, which is a gorgeous bookmatched ash, vintage stain color 52 style tele with vintage seymour duncans in all lacquer finish.

EDIT:
I figured that Ame#2Lacquer may be American #2 Lacquer...nitrocellulose. The lacquer portion is right, the AME part is apparently referring to the color of the neck finish, there were three yellow tints referred to by AME#1-3. Obviously, not all necks are lacquer finished, but if you see ラッカー, yours is.

 

[Memphis Soul]

Good advice for any guitar. Always try the electronics that come with it you might be surprised and actually like them.

 

[Alaska Mike]

My ‘86 (FujiGen A serial) was built for the US market. Bought new. Threaded saddles (still have them). The dime pots failed decades ago, as did the switch and output jack. The pickups are long gone, but I think they were ceramic.

I have a ‘98 TL-JD body from a Partscaster that has a Jason Isbell neck. My ‘15 TL-62B had horribly unbalanced Alnico pickups and cheap electronics, but great wood and craftsmanship. My ‘23 Traditional body was another Partscaster that now sports a Vintera II ‘60s neck.

I never immediately rip out what is there unless it doesn’t work. However, I have never owned a MIJ Fender that didn’t get the electronics and/or pickups eventually modified. The originals are now saved, labeled, and bagged for later- something I wish I did on my ‘86.

I have never run across an EXTRAD or other premium edition, other than online. They are just not that common over here and fetch serious money.

I have my own tastes in pickups, so I usually opt for MIJ FujiGen standard models and modify them as I prefer. Alder over basswood.

 

[japr]

The most expensive catalog guitar MIJ Fujigen did in 1993 uses the same pots as a "humble" TLC-62B or TL-62B-65/70. The only parts that really aren't of quality in main product line guitars and up is wires and switches tbh and even then many are holding up fine 30 plus years down the road! Plus, it's not true of all years/models. Cloth wiring was common up until about 1986 even on "normal" models.

The thing is their process was "just in time" manufacturing, so they engineered processes to maximize efficiency AND quality. Business may have forced more low cost items later, but you can see the intention of the core fujigen team in their main domestic lines and the Custom Edition team's work.

People getting the true cheapos with mini pots muddled the message up but these guitars are vastly undervalued in terms of build quality and often even components, and are the best value to quality ratio out there if you pay attention to the actual indicators of quality - model number, components, finish, condition.

 

[JesterR]

Had a few. Now happy owner of mexican made strat, tele and mustang bass. Sounds better better, then japan ones.

So, as always, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Alaska Mike]

Every single one of my TL-62s/TL-62Bs/‘60s variants came with dime pots, cheap switches, and weak output jacks. I never have owned one of the TX models, and all of them either came with unbalanced or otherwise unpleasant (subjective) Alnico or ceramic pickups. I have never owned the cheaper lines and been pretty much in the mid-tiers. TL-62B-70s mostly. I have owned (and still own) both Japanese market and export models.

The bodies, necks, and hardware have been excellent. Even when I didn’t like the neck carve (like the narrow nut U- shaped necks) or the body material (relatively soft basswood), I could recognize the consistent skill of the makers. My ‘86 has probably the most stable neck of any guitar I’ve owned, and it’s not lived a pampered life.

I have very rarely gone much above $1200 US for a TL-62B, and that was for mint alder models. The prices they commanded during the pandemic were insane, and they’re only now returning to some sanity.

 

[japr]

Eye of the beholder for sure. The pots they put into those things during the original Fujigen run from 82 to 96 weren't cheap junkers, just old vintage pots with age. Having played both, if the pots are in good shape the CTS are not so much better that I would call the pots from that specific period bad. Some will sound bad by now, some will still sound great. Some won't be to your taste, some will.

I find that they capture the vintage vibe of truly old Fenders super accurately, personally. Again, not talking cheapos - I'm talking about the full size pots used in the OG Fujigen run specifically. Check your guts if you have the older ones. Agree that they downgraded switches and wires (around 85 or so). Through 1996, main catalog line guitar pots are fine and many lines from that era have solid, proper vintage style pickups.

 

[japr]

Sorry to doublepost, but PLEASE look at my link in the OP and pay attention to the Extrad decal and the guts. Attached here for convenience of discussion but these "M" pots are found in plenty of Ordermade/Custom Made/Extrads because they're considered an equivalent or nearly equal option vs the CTS pots.

I have these same pots in my TLC62B. If your guitar is from the OG 1982-1996 Fujigen run, the body was crafted by a masterbuilder luthier, and if it has full sized pots it has high quality components, period. Please stop telling each other to just toss them, some of us would like those to maintain/restore our Fujigen MIJs to original specs.

Thanks!

 

[balston11]

Not sure that all this is correct see my website https://www.alston-family.co.uk/MIJ Tels/TL62..php
I have seen JVs with spiral saddles which I think are original but one can never be sure. Certainly the other type of saddles do appear after 1994 on several models
Especially those of you with TLC-62BEXs (those are EXTRADS!
This is wrong EX denotes export not Extrad see Xhefri etc and my 1996 52RI has EX on it and it is an Export collectables series certainly not an Extrad

I have only seen one TL62B Extrad models see https://www.alston-family.co.uk/MIJ Strats/extrad.php
From the 1993 the the TL62B-77 was in the Custom Edition a fairly ordinary Basswood guitar see

Custom Edition Strats and Teles

Fender

www.alston-family.co.uk

 

[japr]

That's after the extrad program (ended 1994), and from what I've been told lately by an ex-Fujigen employee, it was only used for Extrad models during the pre-decal era, after which there was no need for such labeling.

 

[balston11]

That's after the extrad program (ended 1994), and from what I've been told lately by an ex-Fujigen employee, it was only used for Extrad models during the pre-decal era, after which there was no need for such labeling.

Then you have been told wrong I have an extensive picture library of MIJs I have checked all the Extrads and non are marked EX conversely several obviously not Extrads but export models from the late 80s are marked EX

 

[Alaska Mike]

Yesterday I came across a ‘86 TLC-62B (what the body was stamped) in CAR. Neck dated ‘86. Obviously Basswood. We had to pull the neck to date it. Non-threaded steel saddles on what looks to be an early Fender Japan tray- all seemed original. JAPAN on the neck plate. Bridge pickup replaced with a hot rails, neck unknown. Volume pot replaced with a dime pot coil split, but tone pot was a full-sized Alpha and remainder of electronics original. Body and neck in very good shape, frets kinda divoted in the cowboy chord area.

All that said, as my ‘86 is a 3TS and the other option was CAR here in the States, it makes it more desirable (to me). This one definitely indicates it’s a was imported-later rather than a US-market version, but you never know.

As all of my TL-62Bs don’t have a C in them (e.g. TLC-62B), so I’m curious if this indicates a FujiGen Custom Shop model built on the production line before the Custom Shop existed. I have seen TLS and TLG. I’ve seen more than a few listings saying this means a ‘62 Custom, which doesn’t track with my other MIJ bound TL variants. Any clarification from those with more experience? Basswood doesn’t scream “exclusive” to me, and I have no idea how much parts were used for whatever, but just trying to learn a little more about the markings.

 

[japr]

This one definitely indicates it’s a was imported-later rather than a US-market version, but you never know.

As all of my TL-62Bs don’t have a C in them (e.g. TLC-62B), so I’m curious if this indicates a FujiGen Custom Shop model built on the production line before the Custom Shop existed.

Nice. The smooth three saddle bridges would be a Japanese domestic TLC-62B (same guitar as TL-62B-65/70), good guess on that. Sounds like one of the pots got replaced.

ExTrads were offered in alder or light ash bodies, Order Made/Custom Made could be many different options (still trying to obtain a copy of the options "menu" for those things).

Even as "just" a normal TL62B, note that $650-700 was a lot back then and they're considered a "flagship" product of the era, just below the super premium Custom Edition Team guitars and the holdober premium models from the 1982 run such as the TL52-95.

Edit: you'll need to look at both the neck and body stamps to tell what you have. Some ExTrads have a "normal" body with a custom-order neck full of extra notes, and usually the order number written on both the neck and pocket.

 

[balston11]

TLC indicates a bound body as in a 60s custom from the USA

 

[japr]

To the best of my knowledge, the C indicates the price tier. B after the model number (62B) is for the bound body.

TLS, TLA, TLC - TLB is Telecaster Bass, but they named that before the transition from TL-MODEL-PRICE if I recall.

 

[Alaska Mike]

TLC indicates a bound body as in a 60s custom from the USA

It’s interesting because my other TL-62Bs (including an ‘86) weren’t stamped as TLC-62Bs. Tonight I looked closer, and both body and neck were stamped TLC-62B. The neck is just extremely faint.

I bought it. Original volume pot and bridge pickup were in the original molded case. Cleaned up well, but I will likely refret it.

 

[japr]

The TL62s in the Fender Japan Twang catalog had smooth saddles until 1994, so unless they've been swapped out, the spiral saddles and lack of any ExTrad marks (such as nitro) indicate an exported guitar sold in the US or UK during the original Fujigen period.