Really, Ted? ...Really? Sideways way of saying thanks

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by teletimetx, Aug 5, 2020.

  1. teletimetx

    teletimetx Doctor of Teleocity

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    A lot of this, as you may discern, might be slightly above my pay grade. I have been studying on my own a few of the chord families that I stumbled into, not knowing (at the time of stumble-ment) that these things have been widely used, have names and a wide array of grips and use, either on their own or as substitutes or passing chords.
    I started with the minor7thb5 chords and I’m currently working on the diminished 7th chords.
    From time to time, I pull out Ted Greene’s Chord Chemistry book to see if there are alternate grips that would better serve whatever it is that I happen to be working on.
    And that’s when I come across these 6-fret spanning grips and I’m thinking...really?
    Sure, there may be those amongst you who can say, yeah, no big deal, I was throwing down with that when I was 12, but, huh. Not happening here, although I did think, hey maybe you could use part of that grip.
    Just for grins:
    30576E22-3F29-4AB1-8117-A26DF9FA626A.jpeg 74E51150-19F3-4E30-B3C0-FE6AEBE6853E.jpeg A7E23AD2-304E-4F6D-8E81-3EEB07B20707.jpeg EEFCE04B-4EB2-4D85-8372-8E50A41DE1D9.jpeg 03DF9792-0553-4FBE-8A06-A5DC2D89A7F1.jpeg BC888360-30BC-459C-AE8D-391BC8BBFD73.jpeg

    But I’m pretty sure Mr. Greene had a sense of humor, too:
    1B0B008B-17CF-484C-BF1F-C6FE8C090584.jpeg

    ...invisible chord?
     
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  2. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    Didn't he once use his nose to fret a note?
     
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  3. MonkeyJefferson

    MonkeyJefferson Tele-Holic

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    I've had his books since the 80's, and they're just now starting to make sense to me. As for the crazy shape of his grips, they aren't hard at all when you break them up as he did- as his hand left a crazy major chord grip, he was voice leading on one of those lower arpeggio notes as he walked down to the rest of his chord a few frets down. He was always aware of where everything was.
     
  4. pi

    pi Tele-Meister

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    Nope. I choose these substitutes:

    E
    02xxxx

    A
    x02xxx

    And if I'm being fancy (i.e. playing an acoustic), might throw in a:

    E:
    022100

    A:
    x02220

    And if I'm really feeling adventurous:

    E:
    020100

    A:
    x02020

    If you're a rocker, those last two are what we call "jazz chords"
     
  5. Collin D Plonker

    Collin D Plonker Tele-Holic

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    Capo
     
  6. Collin D Plonker

    Collin D Plonker Tele-Holic

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    Alternate tuning
     
  7. Gmoneymcfly2k

    Gmoneymcfly2k TDPRI Member

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    I agree with Monkey-Jefferson. Ted's book MODERN CHORD PROGRESSIONS gives a little more insight on how he tackled some of those more wild shapes, even going as far as showing melodic approaches. Unfortunately for us mortals, there are also a bevy of Ted's shapes that still require a good reach, flexible fingers, and LOTS of patience.
     
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  8. Fretting out

    Fretting out Poster Extraordinaire

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    Oh! My!

    Holy heck

    How do you make those chords?

    No way!

    You’d have to have Paul Gilbert fingers

    Does the 5 next to those chords mean at the 5th fret?

    A 7/6 sus covers 8 frets!
     
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  9. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    No problem... :lol:
    [​IMG]
     
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  10. That Cal Webway

    That Cal Webway Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    22" scale too.
     
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  11. Rocky058

    Rocky058 Tele-Meister

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    Many of you may already be familiar with Tim Lerch.
    He was a student of Ted Greene, and a fine player in his own right.
    Tim has an excellent Youtube channel that give hackers like me a
    better feel for what Ted was getting at.

    But as I stated in a different post about the Chord Chemistry book,
    after so many years I'm on page 4 ( almost ).

    https://www.youtube.com/user/telebasher/videos
     
  12. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Doctor of Teleocity

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    I'm embarrassingly ignorant of Ted Greene......but didn't Tal Farlow have the largest hands in guitar playing history?
     
  13. maxvintage

    maxvintage Friend of Leo's

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    Johnny smith was famous for big hands and for normalizing very stretchy chords
     
  14. bsman

    bsman Friend of Leo's

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    No wonder I tend to dislike guitar-based jazz...
     
  15. Lies&Distortion

    Lies&Distortion Tele-Afflicted

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    Ouch
     
  16. bcorig

    bcorig Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    The E6/9, the second chord on Joe Walsh’s “Tomorrow” is about as fancy as I get.
    Hats off to you.
     
  17. Steerforth

    Steerforth Friend of Leo's

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    I have big hands, but Ted threw stuff out there that even I wouldn’t try.

    Often times, inversions are your friend.
     
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  18. MarkieMark

    MarkieMark Tele-Afflicted

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    I use his "invisible chord" at every opportunity.
     
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  19. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

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    Man, those fingerings/voicings are like some kind of unnecessary torture. Best of luck to anyone trying to work with that book. The organization of it is like those fingerings. I tried to approach it a couple of times or three in different ways myself.

    If any of you have been interested in that book and found it to be something err...way more than what you had hoped for, I have just the thing for you. I recently started working through a course at Truefire called Fretboard Breakthrough by Howard Morgen. After enough people find out about this course, it's going to be heralded as a work of genius. It already is in my mind. According to me, this old man Howard was something of a badass in the realm of teaching (apparently he died). I had just ordered a stack of books on all things chords to start diving into when I ran onto a mention of this course via a user comment in a book review, and I decided to check it out. I'm blown away by how good it is. That stack of books is going back, as those books are already completely useless to me.

    I absolutely have no affiliation with this course or Truefire, and at this point I'm reluctant to even recommend anyone sign up for Truefire given the recent data breach over there and the lack of communication from them to customers about it. But I already bought the course, so it is what it is I guess. Anyway, I just lucked onto finding the course, I think it's really good, and I'm just passing on a mention of it.

    Anyway, Howard kicks things off with a demonstration of how chord changes with underlying movement can better support a melody than your cowboy chords. He calls the static cowboy chords 'snapshots', like frames that don't move, where we want something more like a continuous movie. Then he shows you the logic of the fretboard layout and why your cowboy chords have the shapes that they do, which leads into taking your beginner Major barre chord and almost effortlessly constructing from it (directly on the fretboard) the Major 7th, dominant, minor 7th, minor/Major 7th, Major 6th, minor 6th, 7b5, and so forth, which really just amounts to internal voices of the basic barre chord moving. It's not a dry chord construction or progression book where you are memorizing a bunch of shapes, progressions, and functions without a real underlying understanding of why. You do have to work at memorizing some things along the way, but you are lead into understanding why you are doing it. It brings things into a cohesive context. It goes on into triads and how they stack to make up your more elaborate chords, inversions, extensions, substitutions, reharmonization, and alot more along the way as well as some chord melody pieces. He essentially uses chord melody as a substrate for explaining chord theory, how to logically construct voicings on the fretboard, and how to use chord voicings in a musical way. I am not a jazz player myself, but I see this as being a great place to start into jazz if I wanted to go that way, as well as just being very enlightening for any guitar player who has an interest in chords, harmony, and chord progressions. This is definitely what Ted Greene's Chord Chemistry should have been. It's logical, approachable, useful, fun, enlightening, musical, well organized, and taught by a classy old guy who knew how to teach. My only real rubs with it are that it wasn't produced independently of a platform, and damnit, Howard died before producing more of the same.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
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  20. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

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    Something has struck me in this short amount of time with learning more about chords and using them. Playing with fuller voicings than your simple 1 3 5 voice Major and minor chords opens up a more complete picture of the surrounding musical context, where only using Major and minor chords can be a bit like looking at a scene through a keyhole, using fuller voicings (7ths, 6ths, and such) is like opening the door to see the bigger picture at once. So once you see that, even if you choose to drop back to using your basic Major and minor chords in a progression, you still have that surrounding musical context in mind to draw from in your playing. In other words, with those colors and movement in mind from the 7ths and such, you are now much better lead to where you might want to go, where with only having that keyhole view through Major and minor chords your playing might feel too restricted.

    I have hunted and pecked my way with embellishing chords for a long time, using 7ths and such and other embellishments, many of which I never knew the names of and how they relate to one another, but gaining a better understanding of how chords logically relate to one another is much more rewarding and provides a better sense of direction than hunting and pecking for the next 'color' in a progression. And those colors and movement need not be played in the chords themselves, but rather, can be put into lines if you choose to. I'm still only just getting started with this stuff and have much to learn, but it's already pretty damn interesting. I have had something of a vague notion for a long time (but a firm one) that gaining an understanding of chords and progressions are the key to overall better musicality, but it's mighty cool to see things start to become more clear and vivid (And hey, I was right! Nener, nener.) I just didn't know before how to approach beginning to clear it up. Chord Chemistry definitely was not the way for me, though. I will give it another good look later after my enlightenment period settles down to see if my view of it changes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
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