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Really everyone is expendable except the guy who writes the songs

Discussion in 'Band Wagon' started by blowtorch, Mar 30, 2021.

  1. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I got it, too. :)
    I did have to google it first, though
     
  2. Henley

    Henley Tele-Holic

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    My standards are lower.
     
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  3. aging_rocker

    aging_rocker Tele-Afflicted

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    Or even no original members at all, but still using the original name. I have a friend who has played with a couple of these.

    And if you don't want to bother with all that 'irreplaceable band member' hassle, do it all yourself...

    upload_2021-3-31_11-58-3.png
     
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  4. IanMoss

    IanMoss Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    “You lose nine-tenths of the listeners.”
    ~ Lindsey Buckingham on being solo, compared to being in Fleetwood Mac (I imagine it applies to Mick Jones / Foreigner too).

    Some bands really are just a particular individual (usually but not always the lead singer - Foreigner, a case in point) and whoever is backing them at any given point in time - according to their whims. Simply Red (Mick Hucknall). Crowded House (Neil Finn). Guns N' Roses (Axl).

    For others, the sum is greater than the parts.

    "I'm now in a band where I can't fire anybody."
    ~ Sting on the reformation of The Police in 2008
    (very much his band... but people pay to see him, Andy and Stewart)

    What about Brian May and the Red Special?
    (before replicas were built, I mean)
     
  5. Miff

    Miff Tele-Meister

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    I don’t know what a cookie-cutter is but Pink Floyd; Genesis; Depeche Mode; Fleetwood Mac; New Order (Joy Division) all had greater success without the songwriters who were in the band when they became famous. They just got others to do it. If ‘cookie cutter’ means hiring someone to do the same thing that shows a lack of imagination. Better to try a new recipe.
     
  6. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Aerosmith too
     
  7. JL_LI

    JL_LI Friend of Leo's

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    Really, everyone is expendable except the guy who hasn’t maxed out his cards. Really.
     
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  8. Miff

    Miff Tele-Meister

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    Songwriters certainly are expendable and replaceable, based on what they get paid by the streaming services.
     
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  9. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. EspyHop

    EspyHop Tele-Holic

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    I think it depends on the band.
     
  11. Bob Womack

    Bob Womack Tele-Afflicted

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    It is an interesting theory but there are always exceptions. The question ends up, "How many exceptions does it take to invalidate a theory?"

    Some exceptions:
    Duane Allman - He was a band leader, not a writer. His brother was the writer and primary vocalist. Still, the band was never the same after he died, even according to the other members. It was his energy that propelled the band and set its course.
    Andy Powell (Wishbone Ash) - He wasn't the strongest writer or vocalist. However, he ended up the energy behind the band and the owner of the band name in 2003 by the British "Last Man Standing" law when everyone else quit over time. However, he knows how to attract talent, including songwriters. They are still touring and putting out new albums to this day.
    Pink Floyd - When Roger Waters left, more than 50% of the songwriting brain trust went out the door, as well as 50% of the vocal identity. David Gilmour decided to take over. He grew into the role and ask his wife to write the lyrics. The band garnered awards, sold out arena concerts, and created much more music. Say what you want, but they were just as much a practical success after Waters left as before.

    Bob
     
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  12. trev333

    trev333 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    yeah, where would we be without Barry?...

     
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  13. Jerry_Mountains

    Jerry_Mountains Tele-Holic

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    What happened to Genesis? Gabriel quit and suddenly they lost the songwritter and the singer. You can replace anyone, as long as the replacement is equally talented.
     
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  14. bcorig

    bcorig Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    If the songwriter gets the publishing rights. That’s the trick.
     
  15. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    What, so NOW you LIKE the Beatles???
     
  16. jvin248

    jvin248 Doctor of Teleocity

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    .

    Brian Adams in the '80s started out as a songwriter. No one was buying his songs. So he decided to just record the stuff himself. He outsold all the bands who turned down his songs.

    In most instances the singer is 80% of the band. Was VH the same after DLR left? Probably dozens of bands the same way.

    That's why AC/DC tried to find a replacement singer who sounded as close as possible to the original.
    Same with Journey.
    They understood they had a magic formula and needed to keep supplying the same recipe for as long as they could.

    Often, bands fall down after the first two records that the music label told them what product to make. The band makes the third album the way they want to and the fans bolt because it sounds completely different to the prior hit music label versions. The label doesn't care because they got their money out of the first two records and are already spinning up the next replacement band's entry albums.

    So is the music label less expendable than everyone else?...

    .
     
  17. tweeet

    tweeet Tele-Afflicted

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    Agreed. If Spandau found another Tony Hadley then they're laughing ! I suppose whoever it will be just has to pass the audition :)
     
  18. Miff

    Miff Tele-Meister

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    Ask the person who wrote the song. Clue: it wasn’t Barry
     
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  19. trev333

    trev333 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    that was the joke, my friend,,;)
     
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  20. corbo

    corbo TDPRI Member Silver Supporter

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    As a songwriter who's worked with some incredible musicians, I can say that this is probably at least half true. It depends, to a degree, on the musicians' level of involvement with a song as it's being developed. Great musicians can take a great song and elevate it to something even greater. This comes not just from amazing playing, but also a THEMATIC approach to playing. That is to say, not just playing something because it sounds cool, but because it fits thematically with what a song is trying to say. Players who think (and play) like that are rare, and if I find one, I don't want to let him go. A good song is like "good bones" to a house or building -- if the inside is good, anything you put on top of it will work, but some things will work a lot better than others. The guy who thinks of something that works amazingly is a valuable asset to have. I just think of the guitarist from the Funk Brothers who came up with the guitar riff for the Motown song, "My Girl" -- he didn't get a writing credit, but damn, that riff MAKES the song FLY. Yet, without the "good bones", there's nothing to build on. A GREAT drummer I play with, who's played w Paul Simon, David Byrne, and other heavies, put it nicely. Being more of a writer than a player myself, I told him I could NEVER do, musically, what he does. He shot right back, "Well, *I* can't do what YOU do!" So, yes, the songwriter is the bedrock, and a lot harder to replace. But the songwriter appreciates what a great band can do -- and that some players are harder to replace than others. Duke Ellington *knew* what the guys in his band could do, and wrote FOR their playing. He knew when a tune was right for Johnny Hodges or Paul Gonsalves -- for Cootie Williams or Cat Anderson. And that can be inspiring to a writer. I know when I'm writing something, I'll think, "Man, I cannot WAIT to see what John does with this!" In the best situations, it truly is a kind of symbiosis. Songwriters love it when great players play their stuff. But great players also love it when they get to play great songs. :)
     
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