rattling truss rod, how hard is it to fix?

[dankomal]

hi all,
my warmoth vintage style tele neck has a rattle that is coming from the truss rod, I thought it may have been the nut or tuners but when you tap on the back of the neck you can hear it clearly.
How hard is it for a luthier to fix this permanently or could it be time to cut my losses on the neck and get another?
its really bugging me...

 

[ghostwolf]

is the neck installed on the guitar? is there any tension on the trussrod? if not, give it a turn, should fix it. as always, 1/8th to 1/4 turn at a time...

 

[mellecaster]

As mentioned above by Mr. Wolf...it probably just needs a slight pre-load.

 

[dankomal]

right guys i've tightened it as described and the rattle is now less noticeable, though it is still there...

I can still rap my knuckles on the back and hear it though.

the neck is now close to straight, at the 8th fret there is a hairs gap between the e string and the fret.

any lower and the e string will touch the fret at the 8th,

Could I tighten another quarter and go lower?

would the trade off between a having a quieter neck and a slight back bow be worth it?

I like a high action anyway..

is it the right thing to do?

cheers,

mal.

 

[ghostwolf]

i could be wrong here, but a rattling trussrod would lead me to believe that there isn't any load on the rod, barring, of course, anything seriously defective as far as the workmanship goes. give it a day or so, and check it again. if it still rattles, yank on it again, if this puts the action too low, heavier strings may be in order, to counteract the backbow.
i've often wondered if a dab of expanding contractor's foam shot into the cavity would do the trick, but never had a loose rod to try it on. (not recommending you try this, likely void the warranty).

 

[redstringuitar]

If there is no load on the trussrod, as ghostwolf logically reasons, tighten it until there is.
Neck relief should not be affected until the slack is taken up...just create enough tension to stop vibration, then keep rechecking neck relief for the next few days and see how you go.

 

[dankomal]

i could be wrong here, but a rattling trussrod would lead me to believe that there isn't any load on the rod, barring, of course, anything seriously defective as far as the workmanship goes. give it a day or so, and check it again. if it still rattles, yank on it again, if this puts the action too low, heavier strings may be in order, to counteract the backbow.
i've often wondered if a dab of expanding contractor's foam shot into the cavity would do the trick, but never had a loose rod to try it on. (not recommending you try this, likely void the warranty).

If there is no load on the trussrod, as ghostwolf logically reasons, tighten it until there is.
Neck relief should not be affected until the slack is taken up...just create enough tension to stop vibration, then keep rechecking neck relief for the next few days and see how you go.

the truss rod works and is doing its job, it takes the action up and down.
I have noticed in the hours after I tightened it that when checked, the gap at the 8th fret has become a little higher, which is good...
though as I stated earlier, I can still rap the back of the neck and hear it.
i'm already on 10s and don't really want to go to 11s but I may give them a try, then I may be able to tighten the rod further still, say another quarter???
cheers,
mal.

 

[redstringuitar]

Is the trussrod nut loose? Try unscrewing it altogether, count the rotations so you can get back where you were and see if it's still rattling, or see if it stops rattling when you apply pressure to the adjuster with a finger or the allen-key/screwdriver.

 

[dankomal]

Is the trussrod nut loose? Try unscrewing it altogether, count the rotations so you can get back where you were and see if it's still rattling, or see if it stops rattling when you apply pressure to the adjuster with a finger or the allen-key/screwdriver.

its the vintage body end type, and the rattle is heard most at the headstock end,
i'm not sure what you mean by unscrewing it?
cheers,
mal..

 

[redstringuitar]

Ah ok sorry, so many trussrod permutations on Fenders...the neck will have to come off in order to unscrew the trussrod nut.
What I'm struggling to understand is how the rod is apparantly altering relief while remaining loose enough to rattle, something would appear to have become unseated somewhere...probably at the headstock end, by your description.
I would be inclined to remove the neck and unscrew the adjuster, then you will be able to see if the trussrod is secured at the headstock end.

 

[dankomal]

Ah ok sorry, so many trussrod permutations on Fenders...the neck will have to come off in order to unscrew the trussrod nut.
What I'm struggling to understand is how the rod is apparantly altering relief while remaining loose enough to rattle, something would appear to have become unseated somewhere...probably at the headstock end, by your description.
I would be inclined to remove the neck and unscrew the adjuster, then you will be able to see if the trussrod is secured at the headstock end.

maybe there is a little too much room in the channel for the truss rod to sit in, or possibly the opposite?
you can definately tell when rapping your knuckles on the back, near the headstock.

unscrewing the adjuster???
how would I be able to see from the body end right up to the headstock,
am I understanding???
do you mean loosening it to the point of the adjuster coming off???
sorry if its a dumb question,
mal...

 

[redstringuitar]

That's precisely what I mean, remember to count the rotations as it's coming off so you can at least get back into the ball park where you started.
You won't damage anything by unscrewing...overtightening and stripping threads, breaking the trussrod or distorting the neck are the real dangers...take your time and make notes, you'll be fine.
Once it's off, check for movement/ rattling.

 

[dankomal]

That's precisely what I mean, remember to count the rotations as it's coming off so you can at least get back into the ball park where you started.
You won't damage anything by unscrewing, overtightening and stripping threads, breaking the trussrod or distorting the neck are the real dangers...take your time and make notes, you'll be fine.

i'll have a go possibly this week, i'll let you know.
thanks,
mal..

 

[mellecaster]

If I understand you correctly it is a Vintage style in the Butt end of the neck ?

If so, just remove the Neck, and unscrew the adjuster nut completely (No reason to count turns)...they are usually too snug of a fit to the drilled hole in the neck. Sand the outside of the nut w/ some emery cloth or the like to remove any lacquer or gunk....coat the threads w/ some Vaseline or light oil...Inspect the hole in the neck to make sure it is free from debris...check to see that there is a small flat washer in place down over the exposed threads of the rod...and just reinstall your cleaned and lubricated nut, and tighten till you feel the resistance of it hitting the flat washer. Then you can Pre-load it about a 1/4 of a turn....give it a go.

 

[JayBee]

If that rattle is still slightly there, despite all other attempted remedies, may I just suggest going to 10.5-48 strings.
That slight increase in tension might just be the answer, with your reluctance to go to 11-50 .
I have guitars strung from 9 -42 to 11- 50, and that difference (dependent on set up) can mean, sometimes very little, sometimes necessitating a different approach and modified playing style.
That's not a bad thing, as it opens up your head to playing same / different things in the same / different way. Some better, some not so good.
You won't know until you try!!!

JayBee

 

[dankomal]

If that rattle is still slightly there, despite all other attempted remedies, may I just suggest going to 10.5-48 strings.
That slight increase in tension might just be the answer, with your reluctance to go to 11-50 .
I have guitars strung from 9 -42 to 11- 50, and that difference (dependent on set up) can mean, sometimes very little, sometimes necessitating a different approach and modified playing style.
That's not a bad thing, as it opens up your head to playing same / different things in the same / different way. Some better, some not so good.
You won't know until you try!!!

JayBee

I played 11s for a couple of years and went back to tens and found everything that bit easier though I don't see why I can't give em a go.
anything to stop that bloody rattling...
cheers,
mal.

 

[Dizi]

Just wanted to mention, you might also check the knobs on your tuners. I have a tuner knob that is slightly loose and it rattles. I took the tuners all apart, expecting to find a loose gear screw somewhere, but everything was snug. So I started suspecting the truss rod, as I didn't think anything else could be rattling. Finally realized the winders are not one piece, but have the knobs attached to a shaft, and one is the culprit.

 

[dankomal]

Just wanted to mention, you might also check the knobs on your tuners. I have a tuner knob that is slightly loose and it rattles. I took the tuners all apart, expecting to find a loose gear screw somewhere, but everything was snug. So I started suspecting the truss rod, as I didn't think anything else could be rattling. Finally realized the winders are not one piece, but have the knobs attached to a shaft, and one is the culprit.

I really though for a while it was a rogue tuner but it can't be because I can hear the rattle unplugged if I rap my knuckles on the back of the neck near the headstock.
I wish it was a tuner!
cheers,
mal.

 

[Dizi]

I really though for a while it was a rogue tuner but it can't be because I can hear the rattle unplugged if I rap my knuckles on the back of the neck near the headstock.
I wish it was a tuner!
cheers,
mal.

Not sure why that makes a difference in your case. My rattling tuner can only be heard when unplugged.

 

[dankomal]

Not sure why that makes a difference in your case. My rattling tuner can only be heard when unplugged.

could you rap your knuckles on the back of the neck and hear it??
what I mean is would/did that induce a rattle in a tuner,
thanks,
mal.