Rain water unsafe to drink. Anywhere.

Milspec

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2nd attempt as my first reply had a "language" issue.

This is what irks me:

‘We have made the planet inhospitable to human life by irreversibly contaminating it now so that nothing is clean anymore. And to the point that’s it’s not clean enough to be safe.’

Human life. Yeah. But what about the rest of the life co-inhabiting this planet with us, every animal, insect, plant life that never benefited from a single human development or technology? We have a tremendous debt to pay to all the other life that we've been sacrificing on the altar of our convenience and the pursuit of an easy life. It's our duty to clean up our messes and invest whatever it takes to prevent more damage.

Or is that unreasonable?
There are likely at least a 1,000 species that go extinct every single year, it is what nature does...it all evolves to the new conditions or dies out and is replaced by something more competitive. There is no changing that reality any more than we can control the weather.

Look at disasters like Chernobyl which certainly contaminated everything around it, yet the next generation of wolves do not show any radiation sickness. They are prosperous and seemingly immune to the high radiation. Nature (which we are part of) always finds a way and to believe that humans can control it or destroy it is folly.
 

SRHmusic

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Study "It is hypothesized...." and then they took *four* samples....
...
I'm curious where did you read this was based on only four samples?

As usual, it seems best to go to the source and take what non-scientist journalists write with some skepticism - they often get some important things wrong or out of proportion. There were four types of chemicals studied - maybe that's the mix up?

The published paper, which is a meta analysis summary of other studies, is available here:
and a pdf version here:

There's a link to the supplemental reference information that let's you download a spreadsheet of the table, which is also also at the bottom of the online version. They reference 34 other studies, which ranged from 8 to 250 samples around the world.

Also, this paper is specifically looking at rain water, not municipal water systems anywhere, to gauge how widespread these chemicals are in precipitation around the planet at levels exceeding US or Danish health limits for drinking water, including in places like Tibet and Antarctica. Looks like there is ongoing work in filtering these out of public water systems.
 

Engine Swap

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f29ed496-40f3-4892-94bc-dc7aaad2f5da_text.gif
 

effzee

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There are likely at least a 1,000 species that go extinct every single year, it is what nature does...it all evolves to the new conditions or dies out and is replaced by something more competitive. There is no changing that reality any more than we can control the weather.

Look at disasters like Chernobyl which certainly contaminated everything around it, yet the next generation of wolves do not show any radiation sickness. They are prosperous and seemingly immune to the high radiation. Nature (which we are part of) always finds a way and to believe that humans can control it or destroy it is folly.
I don't know where to begin to respond to that mentality. I'll just post a link and then drop the issue. You can use Google to translate:

 

jays0n

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I grew up drinking water out of a hot garden hose and from a hand pumped well that took 10 pumps to get rid of the orange rusty water first. Before me, people drank from streams.

Now, everyone gets excited over some contaminants in rain water. The world is getting too sensitive to such matters, our enemies could probably wipe out our army with a bag of gluten these days.
This really got me, good one!
 

loopfinding

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I'm curious where did you read this was based on only four samples?

As usual, it seems best to go to the source and take what non-scientist journalists write with some skepticism - they often get some important things wrong or out of proportion. There were four types of chemicals studied - maybe that's the mix up?

The published paper, which is a meta analysis summary of other studies, is available here:
and a pdf version here:

There's a link to the supplemental reference information that let's you download a spreadsheet of the table, which is also also at the bottom of the online version. They reference 34 other studies, which ranged from 8 to 250 samples around the world.

Also, this paper is specifically looking at rain water, not municipal water systems anywhere, to gauge how widespread these chemicals are in precipitation around the planet at levels exceeding US or Danish health limits for drinking water, including in places like Tibet and Antarctica. Looks like there is ongoing work in filtering these out of public water systems.

Thank you.
 

Tonetele

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Once again, beer to the rescue.
Yep. In fact the Egyptians who built the Pyramids went on strike for more beer, onions and fish. The Nile water was/is so bad nobody drinks it. My brother went swimming in denial and it ruined his gut for his European holiday.
Copious amounts of wine seemed to help.
 

hemingway

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Once again, beer to the rescue.
Actually, you go back not too far in history in the UK, and most people drank weak beer instead of water all the time. Most water was not safe to drink. Unless you had a well or lived near a fast-flowing stream, beer was the order of the day for everyone. It contained just enough alcohol to make it sterile.

I like to keep the old traditions alive . . .
 

Telekarster

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This really got me, good one!

Yep, and @Milspec ain't alone either and I suspect @Toto'sDad relates too. I grew up the same way, same type of hand pumped well that was hand dug, about 100 years before, and was supplied by rain water. I'm sure that the water wasn't near as clean as we have it today, though it was crystal clear coming out of the pump and ice cold too. Did we ever have it tested by some lab? Nope. In fact, I don't think the thought was ever even in our minds for stuff like that. Even still, I'm not sure there would've been a place to test it locally. Probably would've had to send it to someone in the city I suppose, but I have no idea who that would've been or what the protocol would've been LOL!!!

Anyway, our whole family lived on that water for years before we finally moved into the suburbs etc. and even then, our cabin became a weekend place for decades. Never got sick, never had an issue, just had to make sure you pumped it a few times to get the rusty stuff outta the way... well.... more or less ;)
 

ale.istotle

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Study "It is hypothesized...." and then they took *four* samples....

THE ENTIRE WORLD BASED ON FOUR SAMPLES

Yes I'm yelling. The scientific method involves DISPROVING your hypothesis by trying everything you can think of. And if everything you throw at it to DISPROVE it fails, then you've proven it.

You don't just take four water samples, from four different media and say IT'S PROVEN

total junk being sold as news. It's the Snooze if you ask me.....
You have misread the source. It wasn’t four samples The samples were checked for four compounds.

“This hypothesis is tested by comparing the levels of four selected perfluoroalkyl acids (PFAAs) (i.e., perfluorooctanesulfonic acid (PFOS), perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA), perfluorohexanesulfonic acid (PFHxS), and perfluorononanoic acid (PFNA)) in various global environmental media (i.e., rainwater, soils, and surface waters) with recently proposed guideline levels.”
 

bottlenecker

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For anyone who didn't read past the headline, it's because forever chemicals are now found in rainwater everywhere. We are still learning about forever chemicals, but in very recent news they are linked to liver cancer.
My city's drinking water comes from very deep wells, which all have tiny amounts of forever chemical PFAS showing up in them, so I'm researching filtration. There is no way to filter out all of it, but you csn filter out most or some of it.
I'd like to get a reverse osmosis system. I suspect this will be something every house will need in the future.
 

imwjl

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I'm very aware of and concerned about the PFAS problem but you used a news source the ad fontes project repeatedly scores below the most reliable and towards strong bias. The article from same source that you posted yesterday illustrated a common problem - poor use or consideration for means and medians.

On the PFAS issue it really is a problem and there I would suggest looking at what state dept of natural resources or similar agencies are finding and doing along with more and other publications. The state agencies concentrate where you live and also have to product solutions and advice to live by.

Again, I'm not blowing off the topic. A friend's wife is my state's top scientist for the topic and some of her discovery is alarming. A board I'm recently retired from has had to make two wells extremely deep to reach the right aquifer and there are places that cannot do that in any way or cannot afford to do that.
 

arlum

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I grew up drinking water out of a hot garden hose and from a hand pumped well that took 10 pumps to get rid of the orange rusty water first. Before me, people drank from streams.

Now, everyone gets excited over some contaminants in rain water. The world is getting too sensitive to such matters, our enemies could probably wipe out our army with a bag of gluten these days.
If someone's never exposed to anything will their body forget how to manufacture antibodies? The enemy could take out our troops by throwing hankies at them. Duck! It's a live round! Sarge! Franks been boogered!
 

memorex

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The air you breathe is just as polluted as the rain that falls through it. Are you going to stop breathing or start buying purified air in a bottle?
 




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