Questions about Deluxe Reverb reverb tank and cable

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by theprofessor, Jul 8, 2017.

  1. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    Hi all,

    I've been hearing some intermittent popping/crackling noise from my reverb in my SFDR. Since I was running the "mod" where I run the reverb tank back into the Normal channel, I thought perhaps it was that extra cable. No. Or perhaps V1. No. Then I thought maybe it was the reverb driver (V3). I subbed a known good tube there, and I got the same thing. I moved the cable back to run the stock reverb configuration through the Vibrato channel. Same thing. Now to the cables to the tank: I took the tank out and sprayed some Deoxit on the old RCA cable ends and scrubbed them with a wire brush. Then I reinstalled the reverb tank. That seems to have fixed it, at least for now.

    So here are my questions:

    (1) I discovered that I have a 2014 Belton Accutronics 2-(long)spring reverb tank. It was put into the old reverb tank bag but without any cardboard or anything underneath. Should it have cardboard underneath it? I'm impressed without how good it sounds, especially considering it's a $20 item. I don't know whether these are high quality or not (I know nothing about reverb tanks), but it sounds great.

    (2) I'd like to replace this very old RCA cable to and from the reverb tank with something new and higher quality. Any recommendations on high-quality RCA cables that have right angles on both ends?

    Thanks!
     
  2. scooter_trasher

    scooter_trasher Tele-Meister

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    I'm not taking my 72 apart , but I'm fairly certain Accutronics is the proper tank, the cardboard is to protect the springs and coils, I've never seen one without the cardboard , unless it was mounted upside down in a organ, your reverb cables lasted forty years, how much better are you looking for? If cleaning the ends fixed them I would leave them alone.
    I have an 82 that developed a noise after sitting for a time and the moving it, it was the reverb cables, after I cleaned the ends it quit , no problems since.
     
  3. SamClemons

    SamClemons Poster Extraordinaire

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    If it sounds good, I would leave it alone. I would leave the cable, if you have trouble with them 5-10-15-20 years from now...clean them again.
     
  4. Bill Moore

    Bill Moore Tele-Afflicted

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    Leo used cardboard that was held on with screws into wood strips on the Fender amps. Later, when building Music Man, the cardboard was attached to the tank with asking tape.
    When I install a new tank, I use tie wraps to hold the cardboard to the tank.
     
  5. Ira7

    Ira7 Doctor of Teleocity

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    I can't believe they use cardboard on these, like my old Champion 110 SS with real tank. I replaced with a MOD with aluminum/steel tank.

    Are we SURE that cardboard was historically used?

    Paper is a horrible material for the build-up of static electricity and noisy, components-harmful Electro-Static Dischaege.
     
  6. aerhed

    aerhed Friend of Leo's

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    It's "tone" cardboard, very special stuff.
     
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  7. Ringo

    Ringo Poster Extraordinaire

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    How would cardboard inside a vinyl reverb tank bag build up static? I've never heard of that before.
    The older Fender amps had strips of wood with some cardboard on the bottom of the tank and also some had strips of what looks like rubber weatherstrip stuck on the top of the tank, I guess an attempt to tame noise from the tank?
    Professor does your amp have the reverb cables with right angle molded plugs? As mentioned if you cleaned the jacks and plugs and it's not noisy you fixed it.
    Older Fender reverb anps have the braided cable soldered to phono plugs, those can be problematic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
  8. brokenbones

    brokenbones Tele-Holic

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    To answer the OPS questions....

    1.) Should it have cardboard? Sure. Does it need cardboard. IMO, no. The only logical reason i've ever came up to use cardboard is so that the tank bag does not crumple up underneath the tank and come in contact with any of the components or the springs. As long as your bag is flattened out on the bottom, you should be fine. If there is a technical reason that anyone knows about, i'm all ears.

    2.) Don't go overboard on new RCA cables. Any name brand will do. I wouldn't use any cheap, chinese imported eBay cables. You might want to check out the hi-fi audio blogs to see what brands of cables they prefer.
     
  9. Ira7

    Ira7 Doctor of Teleocity

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    I don't know technically for sure why cardboard SHOUDN'T be used in this application, but it can't be the best material for the job. It's the highest on the list of materials for ESD charging.

    Cardboard is obviously used for COST.

    On my Champion, the tank is mounted on the chassis, not the floor, and the cardboard goes over the springs...the cardboard WAS the tank...as I guess some sort of dust cover. No bag.

    It blew my mind when I saw it.

    And yeah, as Bones said above, in a bag, cardboard would create a support/form for the bag, the bag serving as a dust cover.
     
  10. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    Good point, scooter_trasher and SamClemons. Thanks for a reality check to leave well enough alone.

    Thank you! If I ever end up removing it again, I'll probably put some cardboard underneath it, since that's how it's "supposed" to be mounted. I'll keep your tip in mind.

    Yes, the reverb cables have gray right-angle molded plugs on both sides. Are those original to a '73? I thought perhaps not.

    Thanks very much. I'll make sure not to get too fancy with the RCA cables, if I ever do need them. I'll probably order some fairly inexpensive-but-not-cheap ones (maybe Hosa or something) and have them on hand, in case there are any further issues down the road. But for the mean-time, I'll leave well enough alone.

    Thanks, everyone!
     
  11. Ringo

    Ringo Poster Extraordinaire

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    My 79 DR has molded plastic RA cables. Not sure when Fender started using them , at least mid 70s if not earlier.
     
  12. scooter_trasher

    scooter_trasher Tele-Meister

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    From what I've read the tank is actually placed loose in the bag and the bag screwed to the amp ,( instead of screwing the tank to the tank bottom),to help keep the speakers from vibrating the tank springs so much. Whether the cardboard is just to protect the springs during production and possibly service or if it serves a tonal purpose seems to be a mater of debate, some people swear they are less tinny with the card board, I've also read that tanks in blackface amps have wood under them.
     
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  13. brokenbones

    brokenbones Tele-Holic

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    If you do decide to replace the cardboard, only use double-wall, corrugated fiberboard. It's the best cardboard for "tone". Premierguitar.com wrote an article about it years ago....:twisted::twisted::twisted:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
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  14. SamClemons

    SamClemons Poster Extraordinaire

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    You have to have the right brand vintage cardboard or it just will not sound right.Might be a market there. Start looking for and selling property vintage cardboard, new improved cardboard, etc for reverb tanks.
     
  15. Bill Moore

    Bill Moore Tele-Afflicted

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    brokenbones, that's exactly the cardboard I use!
    Tone Cardboard.JPG
     
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  16. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    Love the Iverson meme! "We talkin' 'bout REverb!"
     
  17. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    The old and new Accutronics are the same in name only. Not sound.

    (Modern) Accutronics and Belton are / were separate entities, with different tanks. Sounded different, and used different nomenclature / coding. At some point in the last decade, the companies merged, but I don't know if there are still both tanks.

    I did an A/B compare a while back, and found that I much prefer the MOD 4AB3C1B (2 spring, long decay), to either a Belton or a newer Accutronics. The MOD didn't sound exactly like the original in my SFTR, but close.

    I run MODs in most everything now.


    Oh, I would cover the tank bottom with cardboard. They're fragile enough as it is...

    For cables, I prefer the old metal braid RCAs... Or newer versions of same, if necessary.
     
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  18. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    As far as plastic ends on cables and 70s Fenders go. I looked at a 73 SFSR and a 76 SFTR. Those both have what appear to be original metal covered wires with the exposed metal RCA plugs, just like the blackfaces. No plastic to be seen anywhere.
    Plastic covered cables and RCA plugs have been around a long time though, you see them in old Hammonds and other old tube organs all the time.
    So who knows Fender may have used them from time to time?
     
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  19. theprofessor

    theprofessor Poster Extraordinaire

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    Thanks, moosie and BobbyZ. I'll be on the lookout for some of that doublt-corrugated tone cardboard. As for the RCA cables, what BobbyZ describes is what I think of as OEM, but that may simply be my own ignorance (which, in this field especially, is very great).
     
  20. Bill Moore

    Bill Moore Tele-Afflicted

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    Here is an original tank from a '79 Twin, plastic cable ends, but no "tone" cardboard! Still screwed to the wood, with the cardboard stapled to the bottom. (Earlier versions I've seen have the wood on the bottom of the cardboard, with the screws holding everything together.)
    DSCF2253.JPG DSCF2252.JPG
    DSCF2255.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
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