Question about Stereo

[dickdotwood]

First time poster here and newbie when it comes to stereo rigs. I've have a couple of pedals that I would like to have the option to run in stereo at the end of my chain. Specifically, a JHS emperor into a Strymon Flint. I know the Emperor has stereo output when using a TRS splitter cable, and that the Strymon Flint can be configured to accept a stereo input as well. My question is this:

It is my understanding that TRS cables carry stereo, so if I configure the Flint to accept stereo input, would I be able to use a single (not a splitter) TRS cable from the output of the Emperor to the input of the Flint - and then use both outputs of the Flint and achieve the stereo goodness of the Emperor and the Flint both?

(I plan to put some sort of stereo to mono summing box after the Flint for times when I'm not using two amps, as well)

Do I have this correct or am I missing something?

 

[SolidSteak]

On paper that looks like it would work... one TRS out from Emperor to one TRS into Flint. I don't have an Emperor though and I've only ever used the stereo out from the Flint, so I dunno. Worth a shot!

 

[luckett]

(I plan to put some sort of stereo to mono summing box after the Flint for times when I'm not using two amps, as well)

It probably has a mono out so you won't need any extra stuff. RTFM

 

[FenderLover]

Left output is Mono output. You have to move an internal jumper for stereo input operation. Google the Flint manual.

 

[dickdotwood]

First of all, thanks for these responses.

The Flint does have a mono out, and I have RTFM (have you?) and Strymon's website where it states that the Flint (well, all Strymon pedals, really) does not sum a stereo signal to mono. So if I'm using a TRS cable to pass stereo information into the Flint, and the Flint configured via the internal jumper to receive stereo signal, I'll be missing half the stereo field/information if I only use the left out into one amp - hence the summing box.

Regardless, the question was more about if using a single TRS between the Emperor and the Flint will achieve full stereo, not whether or not the Flint has mono out or how to set it to receive stereo. I've written to JHS directly, too. Happy to report back if I get a straight answer.

 

[OldGuy6873]

If the output of the first pedal is a stereo signal, then yes, the TRS cable should transfer that stereo signal to the next pedal. I may have misunderstood your question though. Apologies if I have.

 

[FenderLover]

Yeah, I didn't know that, and I had the manual open. Thanks for the clarification. I start my stereo split with the Flint, so it's mono in and stereo out.

 

[DaveKS]

The Flint does have a mono out, and I have RTFM (have you?) and Strymon's website where it states that the Flint (well, all Strymon pedals, really) does not sum a stereo signal to mono. So if I'm using a TRS cable to pass stereo information into the Flint, and the Flint configured via the internal jumper to receive stereo signal, I'll be missing half the stereo field/information if I only use the left out into one amp - hence the summing box.

Well the summer is not going to work as you expect. If you configure the Flint to stereo input, you have to use the stereo outs. The outputs are out of phase and if you sum to mono with a external summer you will get phase cancelation and the effect will pretty much disappear. To properly do mono out with it you pretty much have to configure it as mono in/mono out.

 

[dickdotwood]

Well the summer is not going to work as you expect. If you configure the Flint to stereo input, you have to use the stereo outs. The outputs are out of phase and if you sum to mono with a external summer you will get phase cancelation and the effect will pretty much disappear. To properly do mono out with it you pretty much have to configure it as mono in/mono out.

So wait, are you just saying that all stereo to mono sum boxes are just a sham? Or do you have experience with the Flint not playing nice with a sum box specifically? I know phase issues CAN be an issue, but from what I understand it's not a certainty .

 

[DaveKS]

So wait, are you just saying that all stereo to mono sum boxes are just a sham? Or do you have experience with the Flint not playing nice with a sum box specifically? I know phase issues CAN be an issue, but from what I understand it's not a certainty .

Yes I know for certain that Flint (friend had one, we tried summing L/R on mixer board) and also a lot of other pedals that have modulation where L/R are outputs are out of phase will not work trying to sum sides together for mono. Your better off just ignoring one side and using the other, at least you get one side of effect instead of having the two sides cancel each other out.

But no, summing boxes are not a sham, you just can’t use them when the 2 sides are out of phase. Ping pong delays that have no modulation are usually fine.

Heck even a lot of supposedly stereo guitar pedals with stereo ins/outs can destroy the effect of stereo pedal in front of it that uses out of phase outputs for left and right. Why? Because they sum to mono before running the signal through their single digital processor which only has a mono input. Then they output a new stereo signal which they then mix back in with stereo dry throughs, which they do keep as dedicated stereo dry through.

For a example of pedal maker that’s trying to fix this look at this Mr Black Phaser, 2 completely independent parallel phasers with no audio crossover between the 2 sides on its output.

https://www.mrblackpedals.com/collections/pedals/products/twin-lazers

Almost 90%+ of basic stereo guitar pedals only have a single effects processor in them. Sure they can generate a stereo image but they cannot maintain true discrete parallel dual channel processing every step of the way, start to finish. Only some the big gun rack multi effects units of the past had enough processing power to do true parallel processing.

Are the outputs on your JHS out of phase? I don’t know, never touched one. You just have hook it up and try it and see what happens. You have to take each pedal on a case by case basis and see what happens.

 

[hoboroadie]

So wait, are you just saying that all stereo to mono sum boxes are just a sham? Or do you have experience with the Flint not playing nice with a sum box specifically? I know phase issues CAN be an issue, but from what I understand it's not a certainty .

I found that it seemed when pedals used logic to simulate an effect rather than running discrete parts working electrically there can be a tiny effect from latency. This phenomenon could just be in my head, I don't have an oscilloscope that works, but that is why God invented the IGP which was delivered unto man by his servant Jonathan Little. I do have one of those and I use it to lag the analog side when I remix two signals. On a delay related effect that should not be an issue should it? Maybe the clean bits would clash into each other and cancel tone but if one side has no dry signal then phase wouldn't hurt.