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Question about Fender Vaporizer reverb

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by Bones, Oct 13, 2016.

  1. Bones

    Bones Telefied Ad Free Member

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    A while ago, I had a falling out with my Vaporizer , it had become very noisy and seemed to be picking up all sorts of interference and would feedback like crazy.

    A tube change did nothing.

    Then after reading some on the subject, it seemed that the reverb could be the culprit. So I unplugged the reverb and it sounded great. However, I notice that if I turn the reverb knob up, some of the old hissing noise comes back.

    I guess the question is, is there something else I can disconnect to totally remove the reverb circuit? Is it tube driven, is there a tube that should be removed that won't cause something else to not work properly.

    Obviously the easy answer is to just leave the pot all the way down, just wondering if there us something else to do.

    I really like the clean dry sound from this amp, I don't care about the reverb or the gimmicky "Vaporizer " thing .
     
  2. jazzguitar

    jazzguitar Tele-Afflicted

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    Sorry I have no experience with this model, but a quick google search for Vaporizer Reverb issue did find quite a few sites discussing this, including this forum.

    Possible issues are PCB cracks, bad solder joints, the usual suspects except tubes as apparently the Vaporizer reverb is not tube driven.
     
  3. mRtINY

    mRtINY Friend of Leo's

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    The Vaporizer has tube-driven reverb when the vaporize mode is engaged. I'd have to look at the schematic to be sure, but I believe the recovery circuit is semi-conductor....


    -tINY
     
  4. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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  5. mRtINY

    mRtINY Friend of Leo's

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    According to the schematic from Fender, there is a tube gain stage inserted in the reverb circuit. The actual drive of the input of the pan is always an op-amp buffer with current feedback....
     
  6. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    It is difficult to read this schematic that was contained in post #68 of that thread I linked, but the drive is in an IC and the recovery is in an IC. IT matters not what comes before that drive or after that recovery, the reverb is solid state. IN fact, if my old eyes are seeing correctly, the input gain stages are in IC's, too.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Bones

    Bones Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Thanks for the replies !
     
  8. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    mrtiny, this statement....."The actual drive of the input of the pan is always an op-amp buffer with current feedback...."....is confusing to me. The only time there is an op amp in a reverb circuit is when the reverb circuit is not tube driven circuit, ime. That is, only solid state reverb circuits have op amps in them, ime.
     
  9. mRtINY

    mRtINY Friend of Leo's

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    I was underlining the tube stage in-line with the driver that's switched in when vaporize is engaged. If you are after the sound of a tube driver (driven hard) that triode will get the essential character even if the coupling is through an op-amp instead of a transformer.

    Here's some mark-ups to look at. By strict definition, It's not a tube-driven reverb, but the Vaporize mode has a tube just in front of the buffer that drives the pan. And, that will give you the sound of a tube-driven reverb (mostly, if you're picky). vapor cir 1.png vapor cir 2.png
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Thanks for the clear schematic, mrtiny. Looking at that, I am going to conclude that that is a hybrid amp. IT is so far from processing all of the signal in the tube domain that it cannot be called a tube amp, imho. The reverb is solid state....as is much of the tone processing gain stages.
     
  11. mRtINY

    mRtINY Friend of Leo's

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    Preamp tubes are only there for the overdrive character. It actually sounds like a clean fender tube amp. It won't respond the same to clean boost pedals as an amp with a valve in the first gain stage... but, it's got enough of the "tube sound" to be a nice combo.

    So, if you just want the sound of a tube-driven reverb, you get it in vapor mode. If you have an existential need to run tube-only drive, it's disqualified.
     
  12. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I have been around a long time....for all of the time that engineers have been claiming that solid state was going to eliminate the need for tubes. I hear solid state whether it is a preamp stage or an effects stage. IF someone else can believe that is a tube amp sound, that is their perogative. I hear the difference.
    Existential...."
    1. 1 : of, relating to, or affirming existence <existential propositions>

    2. 2 a : grounded in existence or the experience of existence : empirical b : having being in time and space"
    I'll take that proudly. There is something that exists in properly done tube circuitry that does not exist in the everyday(inexpensive) solid state circuitry. That existence is 'palatable' in space and time. IT can be felt and heard. It can be experienced. I have done so. I have not experienced that in the solid state domain. ONE amp gets close..very close; but even it falls short when put to the true test. That amp cost about $2000 in today's money when it was marketed in the late '70's. These inexpensive SS amps and hybrids do not develop the necessary harmonic structures to do what tubes do....ime. They fall...and sound....flat, dull, and uninspiring musically, imho and ime. IF that works for someone, fine by me. IT doesn't work for me.
     
  13. xafinity

    xafinity Friend of Leo's

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    OPs topic is off the rails
     
  14. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    A while back, a friend brought one to a gig, great Country player. We both tried it. I thought it pretty much sounded like a Solid State amp, overall ... flat, drab cleans and craptacular distortion. Plus, it wasn't substantially louder than my SF Princeton Reverb, which sounded considerably better to our ears. They look cool. Maybe build a tube amp into the cabinet?

    I'm not against hybrid amps ... I'm on my second MusicMan, but to me, it sounds much "tuby-er" than the Vaporizer. I admit the latter amp has some "low-fi" potential, if that garage band tone is your thing. Different strokes, etc.
     
  15. mRtINY

    mRtINY Friend of Leo's

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    The stock speakers were crap. That seems to be the issue.

    The Vaporize mode was supposed to sound like a flat-out champ.... I guess that's why the speakers were chosen. I'm looking to modify the vapor mode too, probably as a reverb boost.

    For cleans, it sounds good with the Sig12 AlNiCo drivers from Weber. You aren't gonna get preamp saturation out of it, though.


    -tINY
     
  16. AdrianPi

    AdrianPi TDPRI Member

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    Hey Guys - could someone forward me fender vaporizer schematic? (I can provide my email address via pm) :) Thanks :)
     
  17. Ten Over

    Ten Over Tele-Holic

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    Go to Post #9 and click on the attached files. The full schematic is in there with some highlighters on it. The heater winding circuit is partly cut-off, but it is only balance resistors, power indicator LED, and heaters.
     
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  18. AdrianPi

    AdrianPi TDPRI Member

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    Ok, this schematic was pretty hard to read but I've contacted fender and it took them like 5 minutes (!) to reply to me with the schematic so I am sharing the goodness :)
     

    Attached Files:

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