Quackin the Tele? With arlo, eldred

Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by TxSpecial86, Aug 5, 2021.

  1. TxSpecial86

    TxSpecial86 TDPRI Member

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    Hey guys, Running some texas specials in my tele, threw a strat pup in the neck, and now im trying to get a little quack into it.

    I assume because the pickups are spaced further than on a strat causes it to only get about half quacked, and not even the good half :(

    I have dabbled with the Arlo mod before, but just on one pickup. I was curious is anyone had tried to run the Arlo mod, or eldred mod or anything on a switch that is selecting 2 positions instead of only one? Say i threw a 5 way strat swicth in my 2 pickup Tele, is there a way to get a more pronounced quack out of the 2 pickups as they are, or is what i got..what i got?
     
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  2. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    The only thing I ever found to get that "Strat quack" on a Tele was with a Strat-ish p/up in the middle position.....but good luck. ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
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  3. wabashslim

    wabashslim Friend of Leo's

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    I've tried various circuits that attempt to simulate the three-pickup quack using capacitors but they don't work, they just sound like varying degrees of OOP. But you can optimize the both-pickups-on sound depending on what the pickups are & how they interact with each other. Some pickups just don't work well together no matter what you do.
     
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  4. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    The Eldred mod isn't designed to get quack, it's a high-end roll-off to get a "jazz box" tone.
    The Arlo mod gives you a "half-cocked wah" type sound, kind of a notched midrange, so it's closer.

    Here's one I think Bill Lawrence came up with, it's supposed to get a pretty good quack in the half-out-of-phase (#4) throw. You can experiment with cap values to "fine tune" the quack a bit.

    upload_2021-8-5_11-41-21.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
  5. Deaf Eddie

    Deaf Eddie Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
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  6. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    I think much of the "quack" phenom is rooted in the placement of the pickups somewhat closer together - such as with most SSS Strats (the exception being that weirdly spaced Strat that Robbie Robertson had, with the central pickup too close to the bridge pickup and too far from the neck pickup). Yup, it is the placement of the pickups and it is to me, clearly different than out of phase or half out of phase sounds that are achieved through unusual wiring schemes. I mean, I like some of these sounds we get with the Bill Lawrence 5 way switch (with one position half out of phase) and I like some of these sounds we get with MIM Bajas, but these are, to my ears at least, just not quack and actually not really close.
     
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  7. beanluc

    beanluc Tele-Afflicted

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    You're talking about two completely different quacks.

    They might both be ducks, but they're not both Strats.

    Arlo and Eldred mods are like a wah pedal stuck on "wo", and they have nothing at all to do with the interactions between two pickups.

    The closest I've come, or seen, to achieving Stratty position 2and 4 sounds (the quacky positions) with a Tele is to implement the half-out-of-phase mod, and it doesn't hurt to use extra-stratty-sounding pickups at the same time.

    Google or search this forum for Jerry Donahue "H.O.O.P." half out of phase. It's typically on one of the positions of a five way switch. There's a Bill Lawrence version of the same idea, too.

    It doesn't actually refer to the phase angle, it refers to the fact that only half of the frequencies (the high ones) are subject to phase interference.

    You know how the Strat position 2 and 4 sound is described as "out of phase," right, even though the wiring isn't putting the pickups electrically out of phase? And you know how an "out of phase" switch, which puts pickups electrically out of phase with each other, is sometimes described as sounding "quacky", right? What the HOOP mod does is bring in some of that electrically-out-of-phase flavor without making the sound all weak and overly hollow. It does sort of simulate the situation where there's high-frequency phase interference between two closely spaced pickups but no appreciable phase interference in the fundamental or lower-harmonic frequencies.

    To answer your question directly, it's certainly possible to implement a switch position so that it applies a fixed capacitor to ground to the signal from more than one pickup (Arlo, Eldred). However - since it sounds like what you're after is not a cocked wah sound, I think you'll be pretty satisfied with a half-out-of-phase switch position. I am. It doesn't sound "just like a Strat," but it does evoke the Strat sound unambiguously.

    Here's a demo of a Jerry Donahue telecaster with the HOOP position at 8:42:



    And if you care, here's my mod report on putting that in a Tele of my own: https://www.tdpri.com/threads/puzzle-all-the-tones.1052725/

    The particular guitar in that link has an Eldred mod too. Applied to the total signal, not just one pickup or the other or both. Both these mods are in there because they're doing two different things. Heck, you can even switch them both on at the same time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
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  8. ricknbaker

    ricknbaker Tele-Afflicted

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    If you want Strat quack, just get a Strat.
     
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  9. Wrighty

    Wrighty Friend of Leo's

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    ‘jazz box half-cocked wash’………………….love it!
     
  10. Wrighty

    Wrighty Friend of Leo's

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    If it looks like a duck and sounds lije a duck……………..so what is the difference between a duck, other than one of its legs is both the same? I need coffee, sorry…..
     
  11. Wrighty

    Wrighty Friend of Leo's

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    I agree it is probably where the pups are rather than the electrics. Quite likely the angled bridge pup contributes too so that will be present and correct on a Tele.
     
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  12. jvin248

    jvin248 Doctor of Teleocity

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    .

    Strat Quack is all about weaker pickup outputs with unequal pickup strengths between them.
    This will take a bit of messing around but is free (no new parts):

    Lower both pickups to the trim ring/pickguard then raise the bridge pickup until you get the most Quack. Not the most volume, get volume from your amp. You generally won't need to raise it that high but you'll find a spot where you get more and more Quack and then less and less Quack so find the transition.

    You can also try lowering the pickups and then tipping one pickup low on the bass side and higher on the treble side while the other pickup is higher on the bass side and lower on the treble side so you get kind of an 'X' when looking down the strings at the pickups.

    I've even gotten Quack on humbuckers by lowering the pickup and raising the screw poles -- giving unequal output between the bobbins. I've used Strat-Stagger pole patterns on a neck pickup this way to get more of the classic Strat tone. It's not quite as good as a real Strat Quack but it's a lot more believable than any other mod on an HH guitar.

    The unequal bobbin outputs cancel out some frequencies and reinforce others giving that Quack tone.

    Caution: know the limits of the pickup elevator screws so you don't have the pickups fall off and you have to go fishing for them.

    .
     
  13. beanluc

    beanluc Tele-Afflicted

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    Neverminding that there are hundreds of different kinds of ducks, we aren't actually talking about ducks at all, we're talking about different guitar sounds which have both been described as "quacky."

    They don't actually sound the same. And they definitely aren't achieved the same way.
     
  14. TxSpecial86

    TxSpecial86 TDPRI Member

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    You the man eddie
     
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  15. TxSpecial86

    TxSpecial86 TDPRI Member

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    I have 2 strats, and a STRAT ( a real one lol). And 3 teles, and i still cant make up my mind haha.
     
  16. TxSpecial86

    TxSpecial86 TDPRI Member

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    I appreciate the information. Thanks. Yes i am aware of the "cocked wah" being the tones that come from the arlo/edlred mods. I had just never thought if the strat quack was also achievable through some sort of cap/resister combo as well. But thanks for your response, i think ill give it a go
     
  17. TxSpecial86

    TxSpecial86 TDPRI Member

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  18. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    I do agree, that on an SSS Strat, lowering the middle pickup is a good deal for a variety of reasons and one is dialing in more quack in positions 2 + 4. I tend to use positions 1, 2,4 and 5 and not the middle by itself, so I lose very little dropping the middle Strat single coil down to basically pickguard level in most cases. This gets the added advantage of getting that darned pickup cover out of the path of my playing hand. This advantage also applies to typical "Nashville" Telecasters, at least for the N + M combination.
     
  19. Wrighty

    Wrighty Friend of Leo's

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    I luck ducks.
     
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