Pure Vintage '64 upgrade: worth it or not?

[frettchen]

I'm considering to upgrade my Player Series Telecaster stock pickups with a Fender Pure Vintage 64 set (or something similar).
Not that I dislike the stock player pickups, but sometimes I found them a bit too poor and weak.
Assuming it is a matter of personal taste, since I don't have experience on that, would you recommend to upgrade the player stock pickups with a Pure Vintage set?
Should I expect a noticeable difference in term of tone?
Many thanks!

 

[fender4life]

The first thing to do is decide exactly what it is that bothers you about the stock pickups and look for a spec that will eliminate those issues. Just buying a pickup with no regard to that is a crap shoot. The 64 set's bridge is about as low a A5 wind as u will find and it's very thin and bright and it's about as weak an output as you will find. Nothing wrong with that but it doesn't sound like what you want. You need to describe what you want in terms of tone and musical style before anyone can even begin to steer you in the right direction. Also, does the guitar have a maple fingerboard or pau ferro? I assume being new it's not rosewood since fender no longer uses that on lower and mid range models. Bootstrap makes sets with all sorts of specs and can also custom wind and even custom winds are a lot cheaper than even garden variety fender and duncan etc.

 

[ndcaster]

I'm considering to upgrade my Player Series Telecaster stock pickups with a Fender Pure Vintage 64 set (or something similar).
Not that I dislike the stock player pickups, but sometimes I found them a bit too poor and weak.
Assuming it is a matter of personal taste, since I don't have experience on that, would you recommend to upgrade the player stock pickups with a Pure Vintage set?
Should I expect a noticeable difference in term of tone?
Many thanks!

what kind of music do you want to make with your gear that you can't make now?

 

[frettchen]

The first thing to do is decide exactly what it is that bothers you about the stock pickups and look for a spec that will eliminate those issues. Just buying a pickup with no regard to that is a crap shoot. The 64 set's bridge is about as low a A5 wind as u will find and it's very thin and bright and it's about as weak an output as you will find. Nothing wrong with that but it doesn't sound like what you want. You need to describe what you want in terms of tone and musical style before anyone can even begin to steer you in the right direction. Also, does the guitar have a maple fingerboard or pau ferro? I assume being new it's not rosewood since fender no longer uses that on lower and mid range models. Bootstrap makes sets with all sorts of specs and can also custom wind and even custom winds are a lot cheaper than even garden variety fender and duncan etc.

Thank you very much for your answer. What is missing most in my current stock player Bridge pickup is a bit of character and oomph, and sustain, especially during solos. I'm not looking for a humbucker tone, but the stock PU is a bit too thin in tone. Despite this I wouldn't want to miss the typical vintage-style tele sound. Maybe I'm asking too much

My Tele has a maple fingerboard.
Never heard of Bootstrap, I must definitely look at them!

 

[fender4life]

Thank you very much for your answer. What is missing most in my current stock player Bridge pickup is a bit of character and oomph, and sustain, especially during solos. I'm not looking for a humbucker tone, but the stock PU is a bit too thin in tone. Despite this I wouldn't want to miss the typical vintage-style tele sound. Maybe I'm asking too much

My Tele has a maple fingerboard.
Never heard of Bootstrap, I must definitely look at them!

Bootstrap is big around here and with good reason. I have them in both teles tho one has a van zandt in the bridge. If you want oomph and sustain a A3 is good, tho i prefer it to be wound with 42. 42AWG to my ear never quite sounds right, but thats one man's opinon and it's surely not one held by everyone. But a A3 like the bootstrap extra crispy or original recipe are both 42AWG and the original recipe is lower output and the ex crispy is wound hotter. Tho i would opt for the lower because it will retain more teleness but the A3 magnets sustain better then A5 without having to use as much amp or pedal drive. Plus if you don't like a pickup from bootstrap they will exchange it free so you could them try the hotter one. They even send you a prepaid package to send it back.

The neck i can't really recommend much aside from my own somewhat unique taste because i generally find tele neck pickups overly dark because they are often 43AWG and A3 mags which for the neck doesn't allow as much clarity and chime that really works for rhythm and single notes with clarity. Thats why i like the pretzel neck. It's A5 and low wind 42AWG so it has more piano lows and percussive attack than most other tele necks. I also much prefer A5 for the bridge but the reason i mentioned those A3 models is because of your need for sustain and output, and A3 has IMO much easier sustain and perceived output than A5. I just prefer to get those attributes from my amp and pedals so that when i clean up it gets more chimey and percussive, so i use A5 for both neck and bridge. Some will sat mag type doesn't matter because you can wind over any magnat to make them sound the same as another. Thats not my opinion, as i've tried a lot of pickups with every imaginable mag and wind and i find certain aspects of tone each thing has that always comes thru in it's own unique way no matter how it's wound. Others eel differently including some winders. But i hear what i hear so i can only speak to that.

Thats all one man's opinion so take it for what it is. But check out bootstrap, heres the tele pickup page... https://bootstrappickups.com/collections/t-style

By the way, even tho it's a lower output set, i really love the palo duro bridge and pretzel neck combo. You retain every drop of percussive chime that teles are known for and i think compared to the stock pickups they will be a big improvement. And you can always exchange them. I just find the A5 sound much more neutral than A3 because A3 imparts a midrange that to me loses some of that percussive twang teles are so great for. Can still scream for rock to because it's all about your amp and other gear, and A5 is IMO more of a blank canvas that allows your amps and pedals to do the shaping to get most anything out of them. With A3 i find myself trying to dial out the mids and you never quite can. It's a nice sound but it gets tiring to my ears.

 

[Textele]

With A3 i find myself trying to dial out the mids and you never quite can. It's a nice sound but it gets tiring to my ears.

I am on the hunt for pickups for a build too.

I'll checkout BootStrap.

Yes the inherent mids IN a pickup can be heaven or hell. You need mids but too much and you just can't dial them out with your chain and/or amp.

That's why I quit using Duncan Hot Rails. Great for what they do best, but you have to do that all the time.

 

[Danb541]

I put a pure 64 in the bridge and Dimarzio twang king in the neck on this pine tele. I love the combo. The bridge is not ice picky and the neck is not muddy.

 

[Boreas]

One can alter the character of a pickup significantly by adjusting heights. Find the sweet spot for each pickup, balance them as best you can, and then evaluate the tone. If you still don't like the tone, try to assess why.

I do like those pickups, but they aren't for everyone.

 

[Grateful Ape]

Bootstrap is big around here and with good reason. I have them in both teles tho one has a van zandt in the bridge. If you want oomph and sustain a A3 is good, tho i prefer it to be wound with 42. 42AWG to my ear never quite sounds right, but thats one man's opinon and it's surely not one held by everyone. But a A3 like the bootstrap extra crispy or original recipe are both 42AWG and the original recipe is lower output and the ex crispy is wound hotter. Tho i would opt for the lower because it will retain more teleness but the A3 magnets sustain better then A5 without having to use as much amp or pedal drive. Plus if you don't like a pickup from bootstrap they will exchange it free so you could them try the hotter one. They even send you a prepaid package to send it back.

The neck i can't really recommend much aside from my own somewhat unique taste because i generally find tele neck pickups overly dark because they are often 43AWG and A3 mags which for the neck doesn't allow as much clarity and chime that really works for rhythm and single notes with clarity. Thats why i like the pretzel neck. It's A5 and low wind 42AWG so it has more piano lows and percussive attack than most other tele necks. I also much prefer A5 for the bridge but the reason i mentioned those A3 models is because of your need for sustain and output, and A3 has IMO much easier sustain and perceived output than A5. I just prefer to get those attributes from my amp and pedals so that when i clean up it gets more chimey and percussive, so i use A5 for both neck and bridge. Some will sat mag type doesn't matter because you can wind over any magnat to make them sound the same as another. Thats not my opinion, as i've tried a lot of pickups with every imaginable mag and wind and i find certain aspects of tone each thing has that always comes thru in it's own unique way no matter how it's wound. Others eel differently including some winders. But i hear what i hear so i can only speak to that.

Thats all one man's opinion so take it for what it is. But check out bootstrap, heres the tele pickup page... https://bootstrappickups.com/collections/t-style

By the way, even tho it's a lower output set, i really love the palo duro bridge and pretzel neck combo. You retain every drop of percussive chime that teles are known for and i think compared to the stock pickups they will be a big improvement. And you can always exchange them. I just find the A5 sound much more neutral than A3 because A3 imparts a midrange that to me loses some of that percussive twang teles are so great for. Can still scream for rock to because it's all about your amp and other gear, and A5 is IMO more of a blank canvas that allows your amps and pedals to do the shaping to get most anything out of them. With A3 i find myself trying to dial out the mids and you never quite can. It's a nice sound but it gets tiring to my ears.

That's super useful..thanks!

 

[jfgesquire]

PV 64s are out of phase with almost all other Fender pickups.

I don't have the wind and polarity info with me, but I will post it later.

Either install as a pair or be aware of wind and polarity if mix and match is your goal.

 

[fender4life]

PV 64s are out of phase with almost all other Fender pickups.

I don't have the wind and polarity info with me, but I will post it later.

Either install as a pair or be aware of wind and polarity if mix and match is your goal.

Also, if you DO need to install a set thats not of the same manufacturer and you aren't sure whether they will be in phase, theres a trick u can use if you have a multimeter to test them before you wire them up. Take each pickup and attack the meter probes so the red is on the positive wire and black on the negative. Watch the readouts as you slowly lower a screwdriver blade or other similar metal object toward the polpieces of the pickup., As you very slowly lower it closer and closer note which way the meter goes. It will either go down in value or up. Then do the other pickup. If they both cause the meter to go lower in value the pickups are in phase and good to go. If not you will have to reverse the wores on one of them, but on tele pickups most have the negative wire soldered to the cover on the neck or bridge plate on the bridge, you will have to change that. Unsolder the wire that is soldered to the negative wire then to the metal cover or plate from the negative wire and soder it to the positive. Now the negative wire becomes your positive and when you wire it up that way it will be in phase with the other pickup. You can don that to either one but usually easiest to do with the neck.

 

[puddin]

Bootstap Original Recipe.. is the best bridge on the face of the planet. Total tele submission. Right amp, equalizer .. sweet
It's just me... carry on. Cheer's

 

[jfgesquire]

Also, if you DO need to install a set thats not of the same manufacturer and you aren't sure whether they will be in phase, theres a trick u can use if you have a multimeter to test them before you wire them up. Take each pickup and attack the meter probes so the red is on the positive wire and black on the negative. Watch the readouts as you slowly lower a screwdriver blade or other similar metal object toward the polpieces of the pickup., As you very slowly lower it closer and closer note which way the meter goes. It will either go down in value or up. Then do the other pickup. If they both cause the meter to go lower in value the pickups are in phase and good to go. If not you will have to reverse the wores on one of them, but on tele pickups most have the negative wire soldered to the cover on the neck or bridge plate on the bridge, you will have to change that. Unsolder the wire that is soldered to the negative wire then to the metal cover or plate from the negative wire and soder it to the positive. Now the negative wire becomes your positive and when you wire it up that way it will be in phase with the other pickup. You can don that to either one but usually easiest to do with the neck.

There is another way!!!!

 

[fender4life]

There is another way!!!!

View attachment 1010627

Care to explain how it works? Assuming it pushes or pulls and u want both the same?

 

[jfgesquire]

Care to explain how it works?

If it's out of phase it can be fixed either flipping the wiring or flipping the polarity.

I didn't want to mess with the wiring, so...

Neodymium N52 magnets are strong enough to flip the polarity even just passing them over one side of the pickup.

I used a small piece of Plexi and a felt pad so I could easily slide the magnet over the top of the pickup and ta-da, a North pickup is now a South pickup.

I did the same to an AV64 bridge pickup so it would be RWRP with an AV62 neck pickup.

And it's reversible with no solder work.

 

[fender4life]

If it's out of phase it can be fixed either flipping the wiring or flipping the polarity.

I didn't want to mess with the wiring, so...

Neodymium N52 magnets are strong enough to flip the polarity even just passing them over one side of the pickup.

I used a small piece of Plexi and a felt pad so I could easily slice the magnet over the top of the pickup and ta-da, a North pickup is now a South pickup.

I did the same to an AV64 bridge pickup so it would be RWRP with an AV62 neck pickup.

And it's reversible with no solder work.

Interesting. Ever have issues with the result leaving the mags more or less powerful than b4? And have u used it to weaken them to calm a strident sounding pickup or to strengthen a weak sounding pickup?

 

[jfgesquire]

Interesting. Ever have issues with the result leaving the mags more or less powerful than b4? And have u used it to weaken them to calm a strident sounding pickup or to strengthen a weak sounding pickup?

I do not have a gaussmeter, so I can not give you empirical evidence but I hear no difference in pickup volume whether north or south. I will say that these magnets are very strong and from what I understand, give the alnico rods a full "charge".

In my 37 years of guitar playing, including many vintage guitars, I have never heard of or know what a "strident sounding" pickup is, let alone know of it having such characteristic because of pickup magnets that need to be weakened. Lower the pickup if it means that the pickup is too strong?

New pickups are magnetized by passing them between magnets. Do pickup manufacturers test the pickups with gaussmeters after magnetizing the pickups?

 

[DLReed]

I have a Player Series Telecaster and did just as you are contemplating and switched to Pure Vintage '64s. I can't honestly say that it was an upgrade to my ears. It was definitely fun to switch the pickups and partake in some experimenting but the end result wasn't an overwhelming change in tone.
I may have been better off playing with height adjustment on the original pickups or going with some other manufacturer. But, that's the fun of it and I can always change them up in the future.

 

[fender4life]

Well, some apparently do charge them to less than max strength which supposedly softens the top end from what i gather.

 

[jfgesquire]

Well, some apparently do charge them to less than max strength which supposedly softens the top end from what i gather.

I never knew that, and seeing videos of winders magnetizing the pickup rods, don't see how it's even possible unless you have very strict parameters: strength of magnets, distance from magnets and amount of time passing between the magnets

It seems like it should be possible, but I'm not an electrical engineer.