Proco Rat v Ibanez Tube Screamer

[Neill Levine]

Hi all

I am just wondering about these two pedals. What are the schools of thought involving them?
Should they be compared to each other?

Neill

 

[Tele84-86]

Hi all

I am just wondering about these two pedals. What are the schools of thought involving them?
Should they be compared to each other?

Neill

They are uncomparable: Rat is a distortion pedal and Tubescreamer is an overdrive pedal. Distortion pedals produce the distortion sound itself and overdrive pedals produce the distortion sound by overdriving the amp (best results using the overdrive pedal with a tube amp). That´s basically the difference how I´ve understood it. Also the distortion sound of the distortion and overdrive pedals sound different compared to each other.

What kind of amp you got? If you have a tube amp buy both of them but if a solid state buy first only Rat and when you will have the tube amp in the future buy the Tubescreamer as well.

 

[Neill Levine]

I have a fender 75 tube amp. I kind of like the amp's lead channel. I was just looking for a pedal in my setup to achieve a distorted sound before the signal gets to my amp....ie so my wah does its thing to the OD sound; as it is now it is the reverse in my setup.

N

 

[Tele84-86]

I have a fender 75 tube amp. I kind of like the amp's lead channel. I was just looking for a pedal in my setup to achieve a distorted sound before the signal gets to my amp....ie so my wah does its thing to the OD sound; as it is now it is the reverse in my setup.

N

I think in your case the Rat would be a correct choice for you. My Ibanez Fat Cat is the copy of Rat and it certainly does its job very well. The distortion is hard with sustain but it still sounds warm. Also Fat Cat doesn´t sound like there´s some unit between guitar and amp like some of the digital multi-effects tend to do. Try Rat - if possible - with your own amp and guitar and see if it´s right pedal for you. For me Fat Cat has been a great pedal and it works real well with my Orange amp.

 

[fakeocaster]

buy both

both cool but differant

 

[genelovesjez]

Distortion pedals produce the distortion sound itself and overdrive pedals produce the distortion sound by overdriving the amp (best results using the overdrive pedal with a tube amp). That´s basically the difference how I´ve understood it.

Are you sure about that? I think OD pedals work the same as distortion pedals, they just have a different sound.

 

[bug music]

Are you sure about that? I think OD pedals work the same as distortion pedals, they just have a different sound.

You're right geneluvs, both distortion and overdrive pedals work in basically the same way, the main difference is in the clipping circuit.

Designs do vary, but as a general rule distortion pedals use silicon diodes in the clipping circuit to create what is called "hard clipping" which gives that fuzzy metallic type tone like the MXR distortion+. Whereas overdrive pedals try to simulate analog tube saturation, using "soft clipping" by substituting germanium diodes, LED's, and fancy transistor configurations, in the clipping circuit like the Marshall Guv'nor, Ibanez TS-9, or the Danelectro Daddy-O. Hopefully this helps.
- Jay

 

[Tele84-86]

Are you sure about that? I think OD pedals work the same as distortion pedals, they just have a different sound.

Well....I was sure about it at the point you asked me that question. Yeah, OD and distortion pedals certainly have their own sound but the difference of them - according to Bug Music - has something to do with their circuitry.

 

[Tele84-86]

You're right geneluvs, both distortion and overdrive pedals work in basically the same way, the main difference is in the clipping circuit.

Designs do vary, but as a general rule distortion pedals use silicon diodes in the clipping circuit to create what is called "hard clipping" which gives that fuzzy metallic type tone like the MXR distortion+. Whereas overdrive pedals try to simulate analog tube saturation, using "soft clipping" by substituting germanium diodes, LED's, and fancy transistor configurations, in the clipping circuit like the Marshall Guv'nor, Ibanez TS-9, or the Danelectro Daddy-O. Hopefully this helps.
- Jay

Very good explanation, Bug Music! But had I understood completely wrong the difference between the OD and distortion pedals? Does OD drives the amps pre-stage (and because of that they usually work better with tube than solid-state amps)? Again, that´s a very good bottom line explanation which also clears why they say it´s very easy to mod OD pedal to sound more like distortion and vice versa.

Well...at least I had understood correctly the fact that Rat and Tubescreamer are uncomparable.

 

[genelovesjez]

Does OD drives the amps pre-stage (and because of that they usually work better with tube than solid-state amps)?

Maybe you're thinking of a booster pedal?

 

[Tele84-86]

Maybe you're thinking of a booster pedal?

I´m not sure anymore what to think... , but isn´t it possible to use OD pedal as a booster pedal by turning the volume all the way up and the drive to 0? Didn´t for example SRV used his Tubescreamer just like that?

 

[Neill Levine]

I am confused now too!
Is the tubescreamer the best for a tube amp? I just want some OD sound to flavour some bars in my solos - I play mainly jazz-fusion styles.
Not really after a metal sound, but I would not reject a pedal that is good at doing both.
I guess what I am driving at (pardon the pun) is a good versatile OD/distortion pedal.

 

[geddyleedog]

Hi all

I am just wondering about these two pedals. What are the schools of thought involving them?
Should they be compared to each other?

Neill

Neill,
To compare these pedals is like comparing apples and oranges. That's why I have both on my pedal board (actually I have a Monte Allums modded SD-1 in place of the Tubescreamer, but it sounds like one). Neither one of these pedals can sound like the other one. In general, the ProCo RAT is more of a distortion pedal. It will give you a lot of sustain and it will make your guitar and amp scream. The Tubescreamer is an overdrive pedal. It will make your guitar sing. If you can afford both, they are classic pedals worth trying.

 

[genelovesjez]

I´m not sure anymore what to think... , but isn´t it possible to use OD pedal as a booster pedal by turning the volume all the way up and the drive to 0?

I think so. I guess anything that gooses the preamp will do it.

 

[Tele84-86]

Neill,
To compare these pedals is like comparing apples and oranges. That's why I have both on my pedal board (actually I have a Monte Allums modded SD-1 in place of the Tubescreamer, but it sounds like one). Neither one of these pedals can sound like the other one. In general, the ProCo RAT is more of a distortion pedal. It will give you a lot of sustain and it will make your guitar and amp scream. The Tubescreamer is an overdrive pedal. It will make your guitar sing. If you can afford both, they are classic pedals worth trying.

Yeah, I think the same way. I previously wrote just about the same thing but using different words. I just like to add that sometimes distortion pedal can make the guitar sing. For example Ibanez Fat Cat can do that - at least in my setup. I can get various kinds of distortion and overdrive sounds from it. My point is the OD/dist-pedals aren´t always what they seem or are sold as. The best way to find a suitable OD/dist-pedal for ones own purposes is to try as many as possible and with your own guitar and amp. If possible, it would be best to get some pedals with you from the shop to try them at your own pace without any distractions. For example before I found the Fat Cat, I tried dozens of different kinds of OD/dist-pedals with my guitar/amp to find the right one that gives me the sounds I´ve been lookin´for: the warm distortion sound with enough sustain in the lead sound and enough roughness when playing chords plus not sounding artifical like some digital units. That´s my own advices for everybody who are looking for the right OD/distortion-pedals. Finding the right pedal can take some time but it can be rewarding. Good luck!

 

[Montana_Dawg]

You're right geneluvs, both distortion and overdrive pedals work in basically the same way, the main difference is in the clipping circuit.

Designs do vary, but as a general rule distortion pedals use silicon diodes in the clipping circuit to create what is called "hard clipping" which gives that fuzzy metallic type tone like the MXR distortion+. Whereas overdrive pedals try to simulate analog tube saturation, using "soft clipping" by substituting germanium diodes, LED's, and fancy transistor configurations, in the clipping circuit like the Marshall Guv'nor, Ibanez TS-9, or the Danelectro Daddy-O. Hopefully this helps.
- Jay

This is close, but not entirely correct. Soft clipping is the same for silicon diodes as it is for germanium. The difference between the softer and harder clipping depends on the location of the diodes. For example: A tubescreamer has the back to back diodes feeding back to the non-inverting input of an opamp. This produces significant "soft-clipping" because no matter how hard you drive the signal, the opamp always has the same unity gain.

However, when the diodes are placed back to back and tied to ground, the clipping is much harder. The MXR Distortion+ and the ProCo Rat use this configuration. The harder you drive the signal, the harder the diodes conduct which causes harder clipping.

The clipping can be made even more soft by adding a diode in series with one of the clipping diodes. This creates asymmetrical clipping, which to some people is more musically appealing. It really doesn't matter if you use silicon signal diodes (the most common), silicon rectifier dides, LEDs or germanium diodes. The key is how YOU perceive the output, and whether or not it is a desirable one.

Personally, I like both hard and soft clipping. When using my modified tubescreamer circuit, I use a 1N4001 silicon rectifier diode back to back with a typical 1N4148 signal diode. This combination produces the best sound for me. When using harder clipping, I like to use a red LED back to back with a rectifier diode. The red LED clips really hard.

So, to determine whether you want a harder distortion, or a softer one, then you need to ascertain the type of circuit being used. Distortion, overdrive, crunch, fuzz, etc. are ALL distortion. The circuit configuration is what determines the extent.

 

[bug music]

Thanks Montana_Dawg, I was just giving a quick generalization based on the few pedals I've had apart. I thought the TubeScreamer used Ge diodes, but it was a long time ago, and so I probably am wrong. The other pedals I named were the only other Dist/OD's I've messed with.

I've found (to my ears anyway) the LED's seem have more of a natural sound than straight diodes alone. I really liked the Marshall's sound and that was LED's. I have been putting a red and a green in opposing to get that asymmetrical clipping sound. Although I may try an LED and a diode next, like you suggest, thanks for that idea. And yes the red LED's do seem to clip hard.

The other thing I was thinking of trying, was a green and white LED opposing, since the white clips at over 3V as compared to 1.7V for the red and 2.1V for the green. Have you tried the different LEDs back to back, or anything other than red w/ a diode ? Just curious, I didn't know anyone else here tried to do this kind of stuff, thanks.
- Jay

 

[Tele84-86]

We´ve had some interesting conversation going on about OD/dist-pedals. It´s great! I think these OD/dist-pedals are one of the most interesting types of pedals available because there are as many different OD/dist-pedals as there are these pedals available. There are lots of different characteristics in the sounds of different OD/dist-pedals that you have a wide range of soundscape where to choose from. Like I said in my previous writing it can take time to find a right pedal but experimenting with different pedals can be fascinating. Of course, there are different characteristics between other types of effects units like choruses but that´s different matter - here were are talking about OD/dist-pedals. And finally - if you don´t find the exact OD/dist-sound that matches your needs any of these analog pedals can be modded relatively easily. If you can´t do it by yourself (I can´t either yet but I´m planning to learn to do that) I´m sure there are always someone quite close to you who can - for example in the local music shop or some guitar fan who builds pedals etc. By modding the pedals virtually any pedal can be made to sound just as you can imagine.

 

[MV80]

TS9 and Proco Rat

I've got both on my pedals board. A Maxon OD-9 + a Proco RAT2 and each one is unique and perfect for the tone I was looking for. Good luck pals...

 

[Tele84-86]

I've got both on my pedals board. A Maxon OD-9 + a Proco RAT2 and each one is unique and perfect for the tone I was looking for. Good luck pals...

So that Maxon OD-9 is the exact copy of TS-9? Right? Maxon had also OD808. Have you tried that? Does OD808 sound like TS-808 like they say? I haven´t yet had a chance to test those Maxons. Hope I´ll be able to do that soon.