Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by PooTwang, Jan 20, 2021.
What ?! Sacrilege !
I hope it doesn't drop without them telling me!
Consumer mentality has changed. Eh?
I buy new stuff like food, clothing, strings etc, so I'm a consumer.
Used to be the stuff I consumed was made in my general community by folks like me, cost a fair price and lasted for decades.
We had one of whatever we needed one of, no excess and no new one until the old one broke.
Now stuff I consume is mostly made in factories where the labor is super cheap because the standard of living is so low that human life has no value. Workers are disposable.
This means I pay a little less for consumer goods, while at the same time the marketplace AKA society has me convinced I need a whole lot more stuff. Some of the lot more stuff is tech like smart phone, tablet, laptop, cable box, TV, DVD player, stereo.
Many consumers add stuff like Alexa, video surveillance doorbell, voice control for lights and TV, roomba, smart phone control for the roomba so they can vacuum the house when vacationing in the Galapagos Islands, and maybe some stuff I don't know about.
I see two things connected to old amps and the complaints about selling prices of collectors items:
1) Reproductions might perform the same function, or might fall short depending on builder and components.
2) Collectors items are collected by collectors and totally unrelated to the function.
Reproductions are not the same, right?
Not a lot of sense in assuming collectors think the items they collect are primarily tools for a job.
I shifted from originals to repro amps I guess around the turn of the century.
I miss some of my originals but still have a few.
Collector values go up, that's just how this works, while at the same time collector markets shift, peak, drop, maybe come back up or maybe never reach some peak again.
I agree that vintage amps have concerns, and dealt with those concerns for 20-30 years before reproductions got common enough to make originals less desirable to me.
Given the choice between a free original Plexi 100 and a free reproduction of a Plexi 100?
I'd take the original.
In a way it's about time vintage amps at least took a shot at catching up with vintage guitars.
There are still iconic vintage amps we can buy all day for the same price as a reproduction.
Effectively like '59 Bursts selling for $3500.
hahaha. people are always like "it's the harmonic percolator, you have to get the GOOD HARMONICS not the BAD HARMONICS," or "yeah you need an aluminum neck travis bean and need to play with a piece of metal"...but in reality that "breaking glass"/"smacking sheet metal" sound he gets is 90% just a BF amp clipping with the treble slammed and the bass cut, with the guitar running in the middle position.
"If the market pushes them out of your budget"?
Like working class Americans who used to be able to afford to buy a home, get health insurance and put their kids through college?
Many things have gotten priced out of many consumers budgets.
That's called sucker fishing. Or possibly shilling, Ebay has foam ear plugs listed for $49. Its to make the $25 ones look like a bargain..
The same guy has this>>https://reverb.com/item/37134989-mo...32-vintage-1965-tube-guitar-amp-blonde-walnut
THe only way a vibro cahmp could be better and NOT interfere with Leo's dreams, desire & logic is to have it in a head. And use a designated 1x8 cabinet with the speaker of your choice. THat would be supreme Vibro heaven. No 10's, no 12's, just 8's like Leo designed. THe cool thing is you could have this made from a kit and save huge dollars over an intact Vibro Champ.
And the vital ingredient, the Intersound IVP Preamp:
I think Albini can plug into pretty much anything with this ^ and sound the same...
I don't wanna get political at all, I hope this reply is reasonable . If not, take me out! haha
All I'm saying is that the vintage amp market is just about as free as a market is gonna get. So if people are willing to pay more, people won't sell them for less, and if your budget doesn't allow for it you've been pushed out under no fault of your own. No single person has control over that, and yeah it sucks sometimes, but I don't like hearing any whining about it.
These other things you are asking about are actually important for a certain quality of life, much less living above the poverty line, and often require the (for some reason taboo) "R" word to ensure working class folks can have them. So I totally agree with you there, that market shouldn't be so free that people can be pushed out of it in the way I described above.
A '66 BFSR is not necessary for a certain quality of life, so that market is allowed to be brutal and leave some consumers behind. I understand the need for a modest home, decent healthcare, and an education if you want one. I don't understand entitlement to low prices on vintage consumer electronics.
that’s the other thing too. It’s not hard to clone a BF amp. There are many good options out there for less money if it doesn’t have a fender logo. And probably made by better compensated workers to boot! But people are just caught up in the status symbol of owning an original. And then you have those who need to constantly justify their own status after purchasing them by telling others that there’s mojo, and if you have to ask, you’ll never know, you pleb.
If I were unable to build amps, I could call up at least two tech friends I know right now, and they’d build me a far better BF head than some line worker in 1965 for under a grand.
I have a SF Princeton that belonged to Duane Denison for a while, and had el34's in it when I got it-yipes! Sounded good for years set up like that and didn't blow up, but returned it to spec when the tubes started to go. And as far as vintage prices go, I ain't selling.
I mean, they published the schematics, tolerances and all, in the owner's manual! Technically anyone could make an exactly identical amp since day one. I'm not interested in the status symbol angle either, I wouldn't be surprised if there were plenty of those amps that got the short end of the stick on tolerance stack-ups and sounded like crap. As you say, it's arguably better to get a clone that's made by skilled and vested folks who will deliver a quality, new product.
Honestly, the fact that you can get a BF amp for less than the brand new PCB versions is awesome, I'd like to focus on that. This thread is aimed at the most desirable/in-vogue low power amps, and sure the prices are crazy but I just don't wanna hear about it haha (does it make sense that I like the less popular ones that are so big and heavy they're essentially furniture? )
I love some vintage amp tones, but with interior original components having a finite shelf life, it's a different situation, IMO, than a guitar, and I would indeed prefer either a great new amp, and there are some fine reasonable choices, or a reconditioned one. For me, you have to be able to rely heavily on the amp, as you can with a guitar. A supposedly-great amp that sits there silently, looking stupid, is not for me. I don't collect equipment just to own it. It pulls its weight or goes away.
We should all consider that Fender 1965 amps and 1965 guitars were quite expensive when compared to the cost of living then. Anybody figure out what they would cost today? Fenders were never for the poor. They still aren't.
I threw one of these out the door into a snow bank after it electrocuted me. Left it there until spring.
That's throwing money away...
Trophy class pricing.
Well, in 1965 a Vibro Champ listed for $79. In today's money that would be $650.
2 words explain it...."stimulus checks"