Power Pins 2.0 installed on my 1994 Seagull acoustic

Discussion in 'Acoustic Heaven' started by telestratosonic, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. telestratosonic

    telestratosonic Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    215E6219-93CF-496F-9F78-B283B06D3D7F.jpeg 00D47F44-23A8-4CB7-BED6-78A23B133E53.jpeg 00D47F44-23A8-4CB7-BED6-78A23B133E53.jpeg 52B31488-AA12-47D5-8F7D-A0C0AADFB5AD.jpeg 818EF40E-A8AF-42C0-896F-B5FC2E690EE7.jpeg 08ADB0E3-387B-46EC-B213-145F93EBE050.jpeg 215E6219-93CF-496F-9F78-B283B06D3D7F.jpeg 00D47F44-23A8-4CB7-BED6-78A23B133E53.jpeg 52B31488-AA12-47D5-8F7D-A0C0AADFB5AD.jpeg 818EF40E-A8AF-42C0-896F-B5FC2E690EE7.jpeg 08ADB0E3-387B-46EC-B213-145F93EBE050.jpeg Acoustic Guitar magazine did a review of these a while back. They have a Seagull S6 which they keep around the office as a benchmark for comparison with similar acoustics. The upshot of the review was that the AG reviewer was of the opinion that the Power Pins 2.0 install improved the sound of the Seagull.

    I have a 1994 Seagull S12 (12 string). I've had it since around 2002. My Seagull S6 was stolen and I found the S12 in a pawn shop for 1/3 of the price of a new one. It has a cedar top and laminated wild cherry back and sides. Last year, I bought a set of StewMac nut files and a blank bone nut and made a nut for a six string guitar.

    Imo, the cedar-topped Seagull is not as bright as my Yamaha which has a spruce top and laminated back and sides. But, hey, that's just me; other factors may be in play here as well. I'm the last guy you want to ask for advice or opinions on acoustics, lol.

    I also have a Gibson J45, a 1994 Tacoma DM10-E, and a new Simon & Patrick Showcase dreadnought. Not surprisingly, compared to these guitars, the Seagull doesn't come close. Even taking this into account though, the Seagull sounded a little dead.

    A few days ago, I installed the Power Pins 2.0 after removing the strings. It's pretty straightforward. There are a couple of videos on YT.

    I put on a new set of strings: Martin Marquis M2000 Phosphor Bronze Extra Light 10s (0.10"-0.47").

    My conclusions? Waaay brighter sound and more sustain. Bear in mind though that this is just my opinion and that of a 70 year old guy with some hearing loss at certain frequencies.

    Hmmm (mumbles to self), "Maybe I have too much time on my hands. Naaah!"

    I took a few photos with my iPhone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
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  2. toomuchfun

    toomuchfun Tele-Afflicted

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    Wow, that's a new one for me. I had to see an ad and now understand the concept.

    Glad they work for you, sort of turning a standard guitar into a pinless bridge version.

    I know you're not a representative, but I have some concerns you may be able to answer.

    First, is there a torque spec for how much to tighten the bolts? I doubt you could crush the bridge plate but uneven tightening could be a factor. And can they loosen over time on their own?

    Second, even with the metal plate under the bridge plate I wonder if the cantilever force could make the pin holes oblong after a while and make it hard to go back to pins if you wanted to. I guess if you're happy with it no reason to change back.

    Now for a real dumb off subject question, do the tuners without stings rattle when you play? I have a friend who strings a 6 string acoustic without the low E (Keef style) and has to wrap rubber bands around the empty tuner to keep it from rattling. Just nosey.

    Thanks.
     
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  3. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Friend of Leo's

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    I've always felt that the S12 was one of the great bang for the buck 12 strings - one of few that I would recommend in its price range. It seems kind of a shame to make it into a sixer but if thats what you want.

    Also glad to hear that the pins made that much of a difference for you. There are all kinds of theoretical arguments about break angles and rotational torques and the effect of more or less bridge mass on tone - bridge pins are one of those topics where everyone has an opinion. Reducing damage to the bridge plate is always a good thing.
     
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  4. That Cal Webway

    That Cal Webway Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    Interesting!!
     
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  5. toomuchfun

    toomuchfun Tele-Afflicted

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    Do you think the bridge plate is in play being clamped like that?
     
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  6. telestratosonic

    telestratosonic Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    I can always go back to a 12 string. I think I paid around $160 CAD for the guitar back in 2002. After seeing the review in Acoustic Guitar magazine, I decided to give the Power Pins a try. I wouldn't put them on my J45 or other more expensive guitars though.
     
  7. telestratosonic

    telestratosonic Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Good question. I have no idea other than that the guitar sounds brighter and more alive to my ears.
     
  8. telestratosonic

    telestratosonic Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Good question about the cantilever force. Time will tell.
    I snugged up the threaded bolt instead of cranking it tight as per the instructions. There was no torque spec. There's a flat washer and a lock washer on each bolt. Hopefully, these will keep the pins from loosening but time will tell.
    The tuners without strings don't rattle. If they did, I would have taken them off or used elastic bands. So far so good though.
    Thanks for your comments.
     
  9. toomuchfun

    toomuchfun Tele-Afflicted

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    Thanks for the info, lock washers should keep things snug. And I understand why you wouldn't put them on your J-45.
     
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  10. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Friend of Leo's

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    The bridge plate serves two purposes. It is a brace - part of the largest brace on the guitar (combined with the bridge itself). It is also intended to resist the wear of the ball ends of the strings - that is why it is a fairly tough piece of wood like maple or rosewood. It can be slotted of course or the pins can be slotted. I build guitars an like to use a relatively small bridge plate - I'm of the opinion that too much mass in the bridge assembly is detrimental.

    I also from time to time repair bridge plates - the last couple with a thin overlay of carbon fiber after filling the divots. I also have experience with a Martin from the 1970's (the "over built" era) that had the heavy rosewood b/p replaced with a small vintage one - the consensus was that it improved the guitar (at least made it louder).

    Remember that many classicals and most archtops do not have bridge plates, but they don't have the pins either. When I build a classical or archtop or a ladder braced guitar I like to put a small spruce b/p in to help which cross grain stiffness in the area of some stress. Others do it differently.

    But, to answer the immediate question, the bridge plate is very much in play
     
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  11. 985plowboy

    985plowboy Friend of Leo's

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    Interesting
    Although it looks like the guitar has fake fingernails.
     
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