Spruce is boring, too. All that tight grain! 
Poplar as a tone wood???
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robt57
Telefied
Spruce is boring, too. All that tight grain!
I have a cedar body I made with a Black Walnut Drop top. The Cedar is 1/4 sawn ad as you say, like the spruce, a tight boring grain. But alas, the sides of the guitar show quite the opposite in the boring dept.
I will toss i a top shot too.
Attachments
dog fart
Friend of Leo's
Ol' Strad really knew his stuff- Mr. Haney, Green Acres
Viceroy
Tele-Meister
I have a hard time giving poplar any real cred. I worked in a cabinet and millwork shop for many years and poplar, readily available in nice, clear lumber for about half the price of clear white pine, was always considered a poor cousin to other more "legit" hardwoods. We would use it for mouldings and millwork items like doors only if they were to receive paint, as the green colored heartwood was not considered very attractive. It was soft and easy to work (for a hardwood) and with fairly consistent grain and it was cheap. When I worked in an instrument shop in the late 70s and early 80s, only the worst instruments (that we saw anyway) were made of poplar and they included really bad made in the far east solid body guitars with bizarre wirings schemes along the lines of Godzilla meets the Jazzmaster. Poplar has historically been used as a "secondary wood", relegated to such things as drawer backs and sides and backs of cabinet carcasses. But, the clincher for me, was its nickname, "pisswood", which is exactly what it smelled like when cutting it.
I had no idea that there were Strads made of poplar. I thought he only used pear wood, outside of maple. I am thrown for a major loop here.
Anyway, I'll never be able to think of poplar as a "tone wood" (that Strad evidence notwithstanding). To me, it will always be that poor cousin to other hardwoods, existing only to receive paint or veneer.
I had no idea that there were Strads made of poplar. I thought he only used pear wood, outside of maple. I am thrown for a major loop here.
Anyway, I'll never be able to think of poplar as a "tone wood" (that Strad evidence notwithstanding). To me, it will always be that poor cousin to other hardwoods, existing only to receive paint or veneer.
tonewoods
Former Member
Read the previous posts...
The first part of your post refers to the aforementioned member of the magnolia family (Liriodendron tulipifera).
True poplar isn't even commercially available for woodworking....
Strad used true poplar.
You can still see it growing all over the Cremona area....
Apples and oranges...
Gawd, I wish we could get rid of some of these popular wood names that have nothing to do with reality.
"Poplar" in the US and "sycamore" in the UK are the two biggest culprits for causing mass confusion...
Duffy
Tele-Holic
Poplar
Tonewoods,
What some of us are referring to is called "poplar" and grows all around the East and Midwest, and looks very similar to aspen. It is a semi hard wood. You can find it at most lumber sources and it is clear grained and an above average looking wood. It also grows in the far Northern areas of the Northern Hardwood Forest where temperatures drop to 35 degrees below zero almost every winter. Are these poplars a "cold climate" variety of magnolia? I'm fairly sure a magnolia tree cannot survive extreme cold temperatures for any substantial lenght of time. I can see, however, where a certain variety of magnolia could possibly have adapted to a very cold climate, possibly transforming itself into a aspen like tree now called poplar for some unexplained reason, if that's what it really isn't.
It's called, "poplar", in common nomenclature.
Are you saying that this poplar is not poplar and that poplar is really some other type of wood not found around here or commonly available at lumber sources labelled as "poplar"?
Why is it called poplar then? I think I have heard some old timers refer to it as "popel".
You have me confused. My understanding is that the poplar that we buy at the lumber yard is poplar and can't understand why it would be some other classification without being accurately labelled as such.
In any case, the original post most probably refers to this generic "poplar" that is readily available around the USA, not another rare or generally unobtainable variety such as you are calling poplar.
So, what kind of poplar are we talking about here to begin with? The common misnamed wood or the other type you say is not readily available around here? What type of poplar did this guy buy to build his guitar?
Can you bring this down to common terms so we know what the dude got? Poplar or poplar?
Tonewoods,
What some of us are referring to is called "poplar" and grows all around the East and Midwest, and looks very similar to aspen. It is a semi hard wood. You can find it at most lumber sources and it is clear grained and an above average looking wood. It also grows in the far Northern areas of the Northern Hardwood Forest where temperatures drop to 35 degrees below zero almost every winter. Are these poplars a "cold climate" variety of magnolia? I'm fairly sure a magnolia tree cannot survive extreme cold temperatures for any substantial lenght of time. I can see, however, where a certain variety of magnolia could possibly have adapted to a very cold climate, possibly transforming itself into a aspen like tree now called poplar for some unexplained reason, if that's what it really isn't.
It's called, "poplar", in common nomenclature.
Are you saying that this poplar is not poplar and that poplar is really some other type of wood not found around here or commonly available at lumber sources labelled as "poplar"?
Why is it called poplar then? I think I have heard some old timers refer to it as "popel".
You have me confused. My understanding is that the poplar that we buy at the lumber yard is poplar and can't understand why it would be some other classification without being accurately labelled as such.
In any case, the original post most probably refers to this generic "poplar" that is readily available around the USA, not another rare or generally unobtainable variety such as you are calling poplar.
So, what kind of poplar are we talking about here to begin with? The common misnamed wood or the other type you say is not readily available around here? What type of poplar did this guy buy to build his guitar?
Can you bring this down to common terms so we know what the dude got? Poplar or poplar?
Strat62
Friend of Leo's
The stuff I used is commonly called "Popple" around here. It's generally considered a second -grade lumber, as it tends to twist and split horribly when it dries and was historically used for such things as pallets. Properly kiln dried it's an ok material for guitar bodies tho and will probably find it's way into many uses as the price of other commonly used hardwoods continues to go thru the roof....
tonewoods
Former Member
OK, once again...
The wood that is so-ooo prevalent in the history of electric guitars (vintage Silvertone and Danelectro necks, Stratotones, and the instruments in this thread) is not a member of the Poplar family, Populus, and never has been
wink.It is instead a member of the magnolia family, Magnoliaceae...
The confusion is in the popular names, and the confusion is to be expected.
How it got the name popular name "poplar" when it isn't in the poplar family I'll never know...
It ain't no big deal, except that there are those of us who mill poplar for musical instruments.
True poplar.
It's just something that everyone should be aware of, as there is literature out there discussing poplar's use in musical instruments over the centuries, and the wood that we see in Danelectro necks--and the wood being discussed in this thread--is not poplar.
Sorry to be anal, but we should at least know the family the wood we are working with resides in, no?....
Lot of good posts here on a tough subject.
I'm with Tonewoods on all the nomenclature. I've always called this ubiquitous green or grey tinged mill stock "Tulip Poplar" and that seemed to get me the most traction with whatever lumberman I was talking to. I know Tulip Poplar is not perfect but it is cheap, it is super easy on cutting edges of tools, it takes paint beautifully and it is IMO way better for my needs doing interior trim than MDF or this nasty finger jointed "pine" that isn't anywhere near as stable.
I think Woodman's guitar is a tremendous Beauty. Having said that, it appears not to have triggered a flock of imitations and I believe that's because the timber he chose is very unusual indeed. Most of the Tulip Poplar I see is second or third growth, rapid growth wood and it won't look or perform anything the same.
I am biased towards wood species with a sexy appearance unfinished. Clear unstreaked Tulip Poplar can be found but it is almost always too bland for anything but an opaque finish - and for that there's really no wood that takes paint much better. I have been ( I think ) successful in finding a number of alder bodies I do think look pleasing and interesting in a clear finish. I just do not see Tulip Poplar or even Basswood with enough sex appeal to do them in a clear finish. That chunk of wood that Woodman found is apparently quite rare.
And even though a toned finish seems to fall between the totally clear finish and an opaque one, in fact MORE bling ( ash is perfect for this ) in the wood must be found since the slightest toning of subtly grained or figured woods wipes out the detail. IMO.
I'm with Tonewoods on all the nomenclature. I've always called this ubiquitous green or grey tinged mill stock "Tulip Poplar" and that seemed to get me the most traction with whatever lumberman I was talking to. I know Tulip Poplar is not perfect but it is cheap, it is super easy on cutting edges of tools, it takes paint beautifully and it is IMO way better for my needs doing interior trim than MDF or this nasty finger jointed "pine" that isn't anywhere near as stable.
I think Woodman's guitar is a tremendous Beauty. Having said that, it appears not to have triggered a flock of imitations and I believe that's because the timber he chose is very unusual indeed. Most of the Tulip Poplar I see is second or third growth, rapid growth wood and it won't look or perform anything the same.
I am biased towards wood species with a sexy appearance unfinished. Clear unstreaked Tulip Poplar can be found but it is almost always too bland for anything but an opaque finish - and for that there's really no wood that takes paint much better. I have been ( I think ) successful in finding a number of alder bodies I do think look pleasing and interesting in a clear finish. I just do not see Tulip Poplar or even Basswood with enough sex appeal to do them in a clear finish. That chunk of wood that Woodman found is apparently quite rare.
And even though a toned finish seems to fall between the totally clear finish and an opaque one, in fact MORE bling ( ash is perfect for this ) in the wood must be found since the slightest toning of subtly grained or figured woods wipes out the detail. IMO.
tonewoods
Former Member
OK, here's a couple pics of true poplar that I sent to someone here on the TDPRI to make a Tele out of....
(Is it done yet?)
Very bland looking wood (almost like basswood), very light in weight, rings nicely when bonged, and takes paint well...
It's Western Balsam Poplar (Populus trichocarpa), and is also used for the cores of plywood...
It mimics the stuff in the Strad instruments very nicely, although it is not the same species....
image removed
image removed
(Is it done yet?)
Very bland looking wood (almost like basswood), very light in weight, rings nicely when bonged, and takes paint well...
It's Western Balsam Poplar (Populus trichocarpa), and is also used for the cores of plywood...
It mimics the stuff in the Strad instruments very nicely, although it is not the same species....
image removed
image removed
Viceroy
Tele-Meister
Okay... At least I now know that the "Pisswood" I know, and don't particularly love, so well was never used for violin making. Thank God for that. I have not been to Cremona. After taking a good look at that photo, I will not be using "true" poplar for anything, tonewood or otherwise. It's not very attractive. But, my poor MIM body sure is made of tulip poplar.tonewoods ~ ...The first part of your post refers to the aforementioned member of the magnolia family (Liriodendron tulipifera).
True poplar isn't even commercially available for woodworking....
Strad used true poplar.
You can still see it growing all over the Cremona area....
Apples and oranges...
Gawd, I wish we could get rid of some of these popular wood names that have nothing to do with reality.
"Poplar" in the US and "sycamore" in the UK are the two biggest culprits for causing mass confusion...
I think you're fighting an uphill battle, as far as convincing people to stop referring to Tulip Poplar as "poplar". That's just my personal opinion after thirty some years of working in instrument and cabinet shops and trim carpentry jobs. I've only heard tulip poplar referred to as simply "poplar". But, thanks all the same for pointing that out.
So, take a look at my poor poplar MIM after the strap failed to hold on the tail-end strap button at a gig last night. I had both hands off of the guitar at that moment and down it went, straight to the floor, where it hit hard, right near the jack, slightly to the front of the guitar, cracking and chipping that fine resin finish and denting the wood! Look at how thick that finish is! Ouch!! It was so nice and pristine before that! Any suggestions on how best to recover from that ignominious blow? What exactly is this MIM finish? Any tips on doing a repair to that finish?
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'56Teleman
Tele-Afflicted
I'm sorry your guitar was dropped but unless it has some sentimental value I'd leave it. I don't think that would be an easy repair.
The trick is not to tell anyone what wood the guitar body is made of. That way they can't prejudge.
I made a beautiful pinecaster. Took it to our local tech to check out. He loved it, played it, loved, but he thought it was Ash. When he asked where I got my Ash, I told him it was pine. After that, he thought the guitar sounded a little weak, and that it would have sounded better if I had used ash. I took him another pinecaster, painted, let him play and fool with it. he loved it. Then I told him it was pine, and he though I joshing him.
I made a beautiful pinecaster. Took it to our local tech to check out. He loved it, played it, loved, but he thought it was Ash. When he asked where I got my Ash, I told him it was pine. After that, he thought the guitar sounded a little weak, and that it would have sounded better if I had used ash. I took him another pinecaster, painted, let him play and fool with it. he loved it. Then I told him it was pine, and he though I joshing him.
Viceroy
Tele-Meister
Colt, that's a funny story! and ain't it the truth!! Most of the folklore surrounding wood selection and solid body instruments I would really like to see verified with blindfold tests. As Matt Umanov used to say about solid electric guitars, they're all "furniture and telephones"!! I think that most of the claims surrounding tone and wood selection in Telecasters is overstated.
56Tele, I'm not sure what to do with this thing now. I don't know what kind of finish is on the thing, some kind of very hard urethane, I would suspect, meaning I could never blend in a repair the way I could with lacquer. I'm thinking that this guitar might be the candidate for the MOTO (or MOTS if you will) coated body I've always wanted! Anyway, I may experiment with repairs and see what I can get out of it. I'm not expecting much as this is a big boo-boo that would be tricky to blend in under any circumstances.
56Tele, I'm not sure what to do with this thing now. I don't know what kind of finish is on the thing, some kind of very hard urethane, I would suspect, meaning I could never blend in a repair the way I could with lacquer. I'm thinking that this guitar might be the candidate for the MOTO (or MOTS if you will) coated body I've always wanted! Anyway, I may experiment with repairs and see what I can get out of it. I'm not expecting much as this is a big boo-boo that would be tricky to blend in under any circumstances.
Duffy
Tele-Holic
Dropped tele
One simple and effective solution that would be semi eye pleasing would be to sand the chipped area to a slight bevel and either oil it with some linseed oil or stain it with a matching stain or have a computer copy of the paint color made and apply a thin coat of the paint to the repair after sanding it nicely, making sure to keep the sanded area small, hence the bevel sanding with a palm sander or belt sander going very carefully and artistically. It would probably look way better than the natural relic'd ugly big chipped out finish area on the edge. I think you could do it and have it look almost imperceptible.
A pro tech would charge a lot to do that job. Might have to respray the whole body after sanding the chiped area out, or filling the chipped area with a compound and conforming it to the surrounding finish, then respraying the whole thing. Or you could have a custom spot paint job to the unmatched color area like a couple horseshoes or some lettering, like your initials. But this custom painting by an auto painter or pro guitar tech would be at least about one hundred dollars. Your own self repair could be almost imperceptible, except to you.
One simple and effective solution that would be semi eye pleasing would be to sand the chipped area to a slight bevel and either oil it with some linseed oil or stain it with a matching stain or have a computer copy of the paint color made and apply a thin coat of the paint to the repair after sanding it nicely, making sure to keep the sanded area small, hence the bevel sanding with a palm sander or belt sander going very carefully and artistically. It would probably look way better than the natural relic'd ugly big chipped out finish area on the edge. I think you could do it and have it look almost imperceptible.
A pro tech would charge a lot to do that job. Might have to respray the whole body after sanding the chiped area out, or filling the chipped area with a compound and conforming it to the surrounding finish, then respraying the whole thing. Or you could have a custom spot paint job to the unmatched color area like a couple horseshoes or some lettering, like your initials. But this custom painting by an auto painter or pro guitar tech would be at least about one hundred dollars. Your own self repair could be almost imperceptible, except to you.
Strat62
Friend of Leo's
The only way to hide a ding that deep in the finish is to use some fine polyester body filler to build up the hole, sand smooth and then paint to match. Depending on how much you want to spend-a modern auto paint shop would be able to computer match your color and mix you up a pint.
Start lightly filling the area with some nail polish. When you have the area filled in. Lightly sand it to make it flat and blend in.
Buy a can of matching lacquer, automotive nitro, as close as you can.
Cut a hole in a piece of cardboard about the size of a 50 cent piece. Hold the carboard a few inches above the area and start spraying very light coat of paint through the hole.
When you get total coverage, allow to dry. Wet sand it smooth, easily. Respray if neccessary. sand again.
then mist on numerous coats of clear lacquer. sand and buff those to match the luster of the rest of the guitar.
You have now fixed the affected area. If the color is too light, massage some kiwi shoe polish in lightly till the color is closely matched.
Strat62
Friend of Leo's
That would work for a nitro finish, but I think, from the looks of it, that his finish is poly, or urethane. Urethane and nitro don't usually play well together.....
It is most definetly a polyurethane finish, but lacquer will still work just fine for that repair.
Urethane and lacquer are perfectly compatible. If you are going to use both , you need to use the poly as the base coat because it expands and contracts less with temp. and humidity. If you put lacquer down as the base coat it would most likely crack the polyurethane or chip off because the poly would constrict the lacquer. Fender uses a urethane base coat on all their nitro finished guitars except for the thin skin models.
I did forget to mention, you need to clean that area really well with some mineral spirits or naptha to remove oils and dirt.
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