Poorly glued fretboards...

[trippercaster]

I am currenty building my first three guitars and my first two necks. I'm not setup to cut fret slots yet so I decided to buy some preslotted maple fretboards from StewMac. They were slighty warped, but I felt that gluing and clamping wouldn't be a problem as they are so thin compared to the neck blanks. I guess I was wrong. I used a dozen or so clamps and a good amount of Titebond original but after allowing the glue to set, I checked my work and found several small gaps where the glue had shrunk back as it dried.

So my questions for the experts are these: Can I save the fretboards? What is your favorite method for getting them apart? Unless anyone feels that small gaps don't render the neck useless.

Even if I can't save the fretboards, I'd like to get the double acting truss rods out. Sorry for not posting pics, I'm at work right now but I will add some this evening when I get home. Thanks in advance for the advice!

 

[SacDAve]

Hard to say without a pic. It might be fine. The neck i'm working on I had two spots about a 1/4 to 3/8 long with a small gap between finger board ad neck was visible could hardly feel it.

 

[fretman_2]

I've also had some small areas on the neck-fretboard edges that didn't seem to glue quite tightly. So far they've not caused any issues on the guitar I made for myself.

 

[guitarbuilder]

You should have used a rigid caul to push the fretboard down with even pressure throughout the length. I have a hardwood rectangle that I removed material in most of the middle all the way down the length. It looks like two rails protruding out of the wood. This keeps pressure on the edges of the fretboard.

I have often used steel rods taped to the fretboard edges with a piece of hardwood on top to achieve the same effect.

Put some aluminum foil over the fretboard and take a clothes set to cotton iron and iron back and forth until the glue softens. Then a butter knife, putty knife, artist's palette to lift it up and work your way down to the other side.
Keep the iron moving to avoid scorching and adjust your temp accordingly.

Perhaps you should work on one neck at a time?

 

[trippercaster]

True Guitarbuilder, but I feel that I'm getting better at each step by doing each step twice. I am slowly coming to terms with the fact that I may have to scrap these two and start over. For this neck I clamped two 1"x2" boards, one on each side of the fretboard because I don't have a caul radiused to 12" like the fretboards. I should have spent more time to make something better but I really didn't think glueing a fretboard would be more difficult than a maple drop top. I did two of those as well and they turned out fine.

 

[trippercaster]

I've also had some small areas on the neck-fretboard edges that didn't seem to glue quite tightly. So far they've not caused any issues on the guitar I made for myself.

Hard to say without a pic. It might be fine. The neck i'm working on I had two spots about a 1/4 to 3/8 long with a small gap between finger board ad neck was visible could hardly feel it.

Thanks guys. This gives me hope that one of these necks will be okay. I am building these for myself so a few errors aren't a big deal to me. Hoping it'll just give the guitar some character.

 

[trippercaster]

 

[trippercaster]

Sorry for the crappy pics, these are all I have on my cell phone.

 

[trippercaster]

By the way, that neck is a Warmoth that I'm using to help guide me with my homemade necks.

The body is maple/poplar. I've got another not pictured that is maple/northern ash, both chambered.

 

[trippercaster]

Also have this one going. It's basswood with a belly cut and 2 HB's.

 

[flatfive]

I've had to remove a couple of fretboards, and was able
to do it successfully with help from people here. (Indeed,
I think most of the help I got was from guitarbuilder.)

In both cases the fretboards were saved and re-glued.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/295608-melody-maker-build-10.html#post3764932

 

[ratter]

IMHO, you should heat/steam them off. If that doesn't work, plane them off with a routing sled and start over.

IMHO too, I'd recommend a sandwich clamping jig like preeb has demonstrated in the past. You can build one for about the cost of one or two good clamps. It's intended for un-radiused boards, but I don't see why you couldn't inset or epoxy some steel rails into the top plate to accommodate radiused boards too. No rushing trying to get clamps on before the glue starts to set, better and more even pressure than clamps...a nearly foolproof way to get practically invisible glue lines, every time.

ps - beautiful job on those bodies. They are looking great. You really nailed that belly cut in particular!

 

[gagidlof]

heat/steam should get them off.

as for clamping, I'll second what ratter suggested, a Preeb style sandwich clamp works great. Here is one I use:

those are coming along nicely.

 

[trippercaster]

Thanks ratter. And thanks for the advice everyone. I think i'll stick some adhesive backed sand paper to the fretboard and make a radiused caul like guitarbuilder or flatfive did. Those threads linked above are really good. Best detailed fretting thread I've read so far. Every mistake I've made could have been avoided by reading that first.

After that, i'll try heating the board slowly until the glue loosens and gently pry the board off.

 

[fretman_2]

How do you keep the fretboard from sliding on the glue in the sandwich clamp?

heat/steam should get them off.

as for clamping, I'll second what ratter suggested, a Preeb style sandwich clamp works great. Here is one I use:

those are coming along nicely.

 

[guitarbuilder]

heat/steam should get them off.

as for clamping, I'll second what ratter suggested, a Preeb style sandwich clamp works great. Here is one I use:

those are coming along nicely.

Personally, I like to check my neck wood for flatness after clamping and wouldn't be able to get in there with all this. I think this is overkill. You don't need 2000 tons of pressure to glue a properly prepared neck and fretboard.

 

[gagidlof]

Personally, I like to check my neck wood for flatness after clamping and wouldn't be able to get in there with all this. I think this is overkill. You don't need 2000 tons of pressure to glue a properly prepared neck and fretboard.

Overkill is an understatement, in fact that is what I call it the overkill clamp. I re-built it recently, version 1.5 if you will and I installed only half the number of bolts.

As for checking for flatness, it is easy enough to peek inside, and really I know if its clamped in there I feel pretty confident that its flat. What I like about this clamp is not that you can apply a ton of clamping force, it all about how tight you tighten the bolts. I like the fact that it give you a nice even clamping force across the entire fingerboard.

Fretman_2:

To keep the fb from moving when I clamp, I use a couple pins between the neck wood and fb wood. I use the same technique if I'm using bar clamps, or anything else when clamping a fb.

I know it looks extreme, I figured if it was good enough for Gil then its worth giving it a try in my own shop.

 

[ratter]

Exactly - it's not about the sheer force so much as it is about the evenness and ease of use.

 

[ratter]

Personally, I like to check my neck wood for flatness after clamping and wouldn't be able to get in there with all this. I think this is overkill. You don't need 2000 tons of pressure to glue a properly prepared neck and fretboard.

Can you explain what you mean by checking for flatness while in the clamps? Are you glueing an already carved neck or a flat blank?

Part of the design of the sandwich jig as I see it is that you are using thick material for the two plates. Helping to ensure keeping the whole thing flat. I believe preeb uses MDF. I use 3/4" ply.

 

[guitarbuilder]

Earlier in one of my neck building experiences, I had a fingerboard clamping situation where the glue and clamp pressure caused the neck to be backbowed after all the clamps were tightened.

Now it is common knowledge that too much clamp pressure starves a glue joint, so it wasn't so much the pressure, but the procedure. I attribute that problem to clamping the ends first and working toward the middle.

I use this procedure on precarved necks and those that need to be carved.

After the messed up neck, I then realized many things. A. I didn't have to rush as much to get the board clamped. B. I should start at one end of the fretboard caul, and work my way to the other end, with 5 clamps and a clamping caul. General woodworking calls for a clamp about every 3-5 inches. I figured, one at the nut end, one at the heel end, and 3 distributed fairly evenly between them. No more clamps would be necessary. That would put equal pressure down on the neck. C. Don't clamp to the workbench, as that may not be flat. D. Check the neck wood directly after clamping. with a straightedge to make sure that the wood hasn't backbowed. E. Open up all the clamps to eliminate the fumbling once the glue has been applied. Often, as a last step, I will slightly loosen all my clamps a little, one at a time, and recheck them so they are not too tight.

Since I have followed these self made rules, I have not had a problem and have minimal glue lines on the necks. By the way I generally use iron C clamps.

As always, you need to do what works for you after gleaning as much knowledge as you can from many sources.

On my first guitar, I was taught to use rope as a clamp.. It worked great.. and was the common practice for hundreds of years.

My point being that there is more than just one right way to do things in this craft and one person's methodology is not necessarily the be -all end -all.