Poll: Who is right - me or the drummer?

[mfguitar]

The singer wins... end of story. If you can't make the singer shine then the whole band will sound like crap.

 

[Gene O.]

Our female vocalist has had her share of timing issues. In some cases it forced the rest of us to extend a chord without disrupting the song too badly. In those cases we (usually meaning me) let her know what happened (if she wasn’t aware) and forget about it. But there was one song where she couldn’t come back into the chorus after my solo to save her life, so we ditched the song. She has gotten a lot better in the last year and rarely has those kinds of mistakes.

We’re fortunate to have a very professional drummer and a great bassist for him to work with. No band will sound good without a solid foundation. But the rest of us have to do our part, too… and yes, we all have to listen to each other because slip-ups can occur and sometimes it’s all hands on deck to keep the ship afloat.

Maybe your drummer is the culprit behind your band being as embarrassing as you say it is in the other thread.

 

[Dik Ellis]

Played with a drummer that couldn't follow the bass notes on my acoustic guitar when we played the song Landslide. It only required him using his bass drum. It embarrassed me to the point that I would make excuses not to play it.

 

[Twang Deluxe]

I agree your drummer should count. I hope that your singer does not ruin your songs with her different phrasing. I played in a band with a female singer who ruined our whole setlist with her Britney Spears style phrasing with adding a senseless ooooh after nearly every single line. So IMHO the singer should learn the original pharasing

 

[radiocaster]

I wouldn't say that drummers do not get cues from other musicians, they certainly do, for the fills, changes, etc.

However, this seems to be more of a case of ineptitude.

 

[scottser]

the drummer's job is to keep time for everyone else. he shouldn't be listening to anyone else in the band to sync in with - they should all be locking on to him. if he doesn't get it, or doesn't agree, tell him he's wrong, give him a metronome and tell him the shut the f up and do his job ffs.

 

[scottser]

The drummer is never right.

no, but he is often right left right right left right left left.

 

[stnmtthw]

You should play some Willie Nelson for the drummer and really eff up his world.

 

[stnmtthw]

I played bass in a band about 10 years ago now, with the best drummer I ever played with. We were locked in tight together. It was almost like reading each other's minds. The guitarist was his dad, and had a tendency to start wanking pentatonically all over the place. When he did, the drummer and I would exchange a look, and a well placed snare hit or bass fill would pull him out of his head and back to actual music. I have never played with anyone I was so locked in with before or since. Good drummers can make a decent band good, while bad drummers can make a good band trash.

 

[rsclosson]

Among the reasons that I ended up playing Gypsy Jazz is that, traditionally, there is no drummer. (Of course there are exceptions) The rhythm guitar becomes the drums. Django Reinhardt used two rhythm guitarists.

 

[kennl]

Yes, you should all be listening to each other, but if a singer’s timing or a lead guitar line throws him off, he doesn’t really know the song.

Tell him it’s time for the long pants, he needs to learn how to play in an ensemble.

the ensemble thing is true for all players and singers
a horn player has a different role when soloing versus section playing

 

[SixStringSlinger]

If the drummer is responsible for the timing (and competent at it) and the singer is all over the place, that's like a solidly-built house that's painted a weird color.

If the singer is held responsible for the timing and the drummer is all over the place, that's like a rubble pile with a nice wreath on the door.

 

[String Tree]

I am one of two guitarists in what I affectionately call "the world's worst cover band." Which may be a slight overstatement, but not by much. Our drummer has a quirk that is odd to me, and we disagree about it, so I was hoping you all could help settle it.

The drummer learns songs by playing along with the record. Recently, we got a new singer who sometimes chooses slightly different phrasing than the records, in part because she's pretty new to English. And that has been throwing off our drummer big time. He keeps insisting she needs to sing it exactly like the record because he is "listening for the vocal" to know where he is in terms of starts, stops, fills, etc. It's bad enough we have to stop entirely because he gets way off. This has happened a little in the past (if a major guitar lead line was too quiet or dropped out) but now it's much worse.

I'm amazed by this, as I've never heard of a drummer getting their cues from the vocal. I'm used to the idea that the drummer is the backbone or foundation the rest of us rely on. IMO, a singer should be able to play around a little with melody or phrasing without throwing the drummer off completely. He should have a good sense of where he is in the song and be able to make transitions, even if she holds a note longer than he expects.

His response is that we should all be listening to each other and adapting to what the other players are doing, which I agree with. But he also says it is unreasonable to expect him "to be counting everything" and to know his part without the accompanying parts. So what say the TDPRI hive-mind? Who is right here - or are we both being unreasonable?

These are the RULES:
If You are the Guitar Player, you're Right.
If you are the Bassist or, the Vocalist, ask the Guitar Player.
YEP!!!

 

[String Tree]

Tell him he only has to count to four. Then he can start again.

What if he doesn't start again?
Seen that.

 

[Heartbreaker_Esq]

Since this thread was resurrected, I'll add the update that I left this band. I basically left because we sucked, and I got tired of it. It was no fun being embarrassed to play. So not specifically because of this drummer issue, but I guess not wholly unrelated either. Next steps for me are to write more original songs (which I have started to do), and take singing lessons (which I start next week), so I can have more control over my musical pursuits in the future.

 

[ChicknPickn]

I have a friend who, against all odds, became a preacher. No one could have guessed. Anyway, he told me this joke:

Q: What's the difference between the church organist and a terrorist?

A: You can negotiate with a terrorist.

I reckon the same goes for the drummer.

 

[Alex_C]

His response is that we should all be listening to each other and adapting to what the other players are doing, which I agree with. But he also says it is unreasonable to expect him "to be counting everything" and to know his part without the accompanying parts.

Interesting. The drummer follows the vocalist, but gets lost when the vocalist changes things up. To me, that means he is hearing the vocalist but not listening. Hearing is passive, he expects the vocal to be at the spot he remembers, while listening would allow one to adapt to the differences. It sounds like the drummer needs to work on his ability to improvise.

 

[silvertwang]

the bass and drummer are the foundation of the band, the vocalist or lead can stretch the lyrics or lead notes,but they must hit the beat at the chord change, bridge or turnaround, this standard, or there will be corruption and confusion . all bandmembers will take cues off the bass and drummer , who are the base line to judge if you are early or late .