'Pocket' playing

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by klasaine, Mar 25, 2014.

  1. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Get your mind out of the gutter :D

    'Pocket' as in the groove.

    In response and continuation of a recent thread about playing in time and the groove, here's two very recent examples ...
    Daft Punk (Nile Rogers) and Boz Scaggs (Ray Parker Jr.) of truly stellar rhythm guitar 'pocket' playing. This is how it needs to be, this is the reason these two guitar players (producers/writers) are who they are and where they are, full stop.

    Daft Punk


    Boz


    *For those of you out there who wanna get gigs, especially behind a good singer/songwriter, learn to do this.
     
  2. go49ners

    go49ners Tele-Meister

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    I hate to burst your bubble but that Daft Punk song is most likely a looped guitar track. I highly doubt someone was playing that riff for 4 minutes.
     
  3. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    It's Nile Rogers and he def played at least two full verses and a chorus. He mentions it in an interview. He also produced most of that record and co-wrote some of the tunes.

    Actually, as I'm listening to it right now ... hmmm, I don't think any of the 'guitar part' is looped. There's a lot of little differences between the 4 bar phrases. Listen carefully. Maybe, as I said, an entire verse or two is possibly looped and /or cut and pasted but it's definitely not just a two bar guitar part ... that's why it's so friggin' bitchin!

    *Also, it's really fun to play a part like that for 4 minutes. Every guitar player should be so lucky to get that opportunity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2014
  4. LKB3rd

    LKB3rd Friend of Leo's

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    I read that they wrote Get Lucky, and had Nile come and do a guitar part. It was so good, they re-recorded the entire track around his guitar part. It's a great song. Simple but doesn't need anything more.
     
  5. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    I don't know the details of the production but Nile Rogers is real deal. Disco may have been polyester and fake but not Nile and Bernard - excellent musicians for those two. Nile says "from Miles", but I also get the reminder of less being more.



    No loops and plenty of in the pocket here. Hagar Ben-Ari, Binky Griptite and Joe Crispiano are current favorite examples of "in the pocket". The Dap-Kings are just awesome at being together and timing.

     
  6. Tim Bowen

    Tim Bowen Poster Extraordinaire

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    I just love this kind of guitar playing. Nile is such a badass.

    Not at all recent, but last week I watched a 1982 show by Earth, Wind, & Fire. A veritable clinic in pocket/groove.

    I logged in plenty of time in funk and R&B bands, but it's been a minute. No doubt I'd need to work back up to having that sort of right hand accuracy, consistency, and perhaps most of all, sheer stamina. It's such an art.
     
  7. Wrong-Note Rod

    Wrong-Note Rod Poster Extraordinaire

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    Nile Rogers is a beast, no doubt about it. I couldnt play like that in a million years.
     
  8. dburns

    dburns Friend of Leo's

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    I copped a lot of that type of playing from listening to The Meters Leo Nocentelli...I was big into James Brown and Curtis Mayfield too, just funk music in general.
     
  9. guitarzan13

    guitarzan13 Friend of Leo's

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    Niles rules.....
     
  10. jhundt

    jhundt Doctor of Teleocity

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    there was a discussion on the Amp Central about the importance of mid-range. Apparently many guitar players boost the mid-range quite a bit, in order to 'cut through the mix'. And many of them think that the Fender tone circuit robs them of this important mid-range. But when I listen to these guys, it sounds like they are playing Fender amps, or amps with a Fender-type eq. I think the mid dip makes the guitar wrap quite nicely around the vocals.
     
  11. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Decent mids can help in a 'dense' live situation. A recording session is a different thing.

    It's not the amp or the guitar that's important.
    It's all in the right hand (strumming hand) concept, technique and tone. Try a different pick and set of 10 or 11 guage strings(?). Finding your place. Not necessarily punching through.
    Nile uses (generally) a hard-tail strat and Jimmy Nolen (James Brown) mostly used a Super 400. Amps varied but yes, a lot of BF and SF Fenders.

    Personally, I've never felt that a good Fender amp - BF, SF or tweed - ever really lacked that much midrange(?). You gotta learn to pull that out of your guitar to some extent. Again, that's why the above and afore mentioned players are such monsters. They're monsters on any axe and amp.
     
  12. telleutelleme

    telleutelleme Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Driving Wheel by T-Bone Burnett is playing in the pocket for me. Most of the stuff he did with Plant and Krauss as well.
     
  13. jhundt

    jhundt Doctor of Teleocity

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    indeed they are... that's the lesson that surfaces often in these discussions.

    this thread is appealing because it is about these great players who DON'T necessarily base their playing style on stinging leads. I'll bet anyone of 'em can do that without batting an eyelash, but they don't. They hear the guitar in a different way.
     
  14. soulman969

    soulman969 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    It does because it leave a lot of space in that mid range to fill in with vocals.

    Good rhythm playing has become somewhat of a lost art because like a bass line you have "feel" it. I would rather be known as a great rhythm player than a great soloist so I guess that makes me somewhat different.
     
  15. Teleguy61

    Teleguy61 Friend of Leo's

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    Cropper is a god of rhythm guitar.
     
  16. Chriss945

    Chriss945 Tele-Holic

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    I play get lucky in one of my bands, and I can tell you it is an absolute b*tch of a tune to keep in the pocket when playing. Especially around the 3 minute mark when playing 16th type funk strumming has started to take it's till on your right forearm. Now I don't pretend to say I play it anything like Nile, as he is an absolute beast, but I do feel I cop a pretty accurate representation, and band mates have said the same. That's enough for me.

    I have seen several of my friends who are great guitarists play this song and they take all the feel out of the song, they play the wrong patterns or over play. It is a hugely restrained guitar track when you hear it next to someone playing all the 16ths in the world and adding in some triplet muted notes for a bit of 'flair'.

    Most of Nile's guitar tracks are like this. That's a true sign of an incredible guitarist. And I'm hugely happy to see he has his own signature strat now. About time!
     
  17. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    ;) Not at all. You're in league with most professional guitarists.
     
  18. go49ners

    go49ners Tele-Meister

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    Wasn't trying to take anything away from the track and I'm no expert so I could easily be wrong I just wouldn't be surprised if a decent portion of it was looped

    It's a killer riff and song.
     
  19. brianswindall

    brianswindall Tele-Afflicted

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    That isn't a looper on the Daft Punk song. I'm listening to it. It's varied, listen to it. No way that's a looper.
     
  20. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    No doubt a lot of stuff like this is of course looped.
    This track just doesn't happen to be one of them.

    Check out what Nile says at 3:05


    When you're a great player (and are working with a band that can actually make a decision), it's faster and cheaper to just play the ƒ'n thing.
    IMO this is precisely why this is such a bada$$ track and why it will remain as a perennial dance favorite ... not unlike Le Freak, Good Times, Let's Dance - hmmm?
     
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