Please define "Made In America" for me.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Digiplay, Oct 18, 2021.

  1. ben smith

    ben smith Tele-Afflicted

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    Duesenberg guitars for instance say their guitars are made in Germany but actually it turns out the bodies are made and painted in Korea and the guitars are assembled in Germany, it's all very misleading and put me off buying one to be honest.
     
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  2. Archtops

    Archtops Tele-Holic

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    Or crafted.
     
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  3. Archtops

    Archtops Tele-Holic

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    Apologies but Yes they do and in some instances are even better with modern tooling and tech. IMHO.
     
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  4. Telekarster

    Telekarster Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    When I built my partscasters, I used only parts from Fender that said "Made in U.S.A." on the package as much as I could. I was rather surprized in fact at just how many parts were still made in the USA, and all of them high quality. Even the wax cap I used PN# 0096454049 said "Made in U.S.A.". The Gavitt wire I used was also made in usa, as well as the CRL switch. It's pretty cool when you think about it ;)
     
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  5. 1293

    1293 Poster Extraordinaire

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    I don't care. I'm an Earthling. Don’t get me started on that Mars crap.
     
  6. Asmith

    Asmith Friend of Leo's

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    That is pretty cool but just remember that all the wires, caps and other electronics from the guitar cable to the amp are all probably made in Asia.

    Edit: Unless the amp is of a certain vintage and has not been serviced but you're probably still using a modern cable.
     
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  7. Telekarster

    Telekarster Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    Right but just sayin' that if I can get all these parts from Fender, all made in USA, I think that's pretty neat and I don't mind paying a little extra $$$ to support that. Plus the parts were all very high quality so... I'm happy ;)
     
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  8. boredguy6060

    boredguy6060 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Instead of being made somewhere else, it’s made in America.
     
  9. beagle

    beagle Friend of Leo's

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    It doesn't matter where the parts are made, they're still imports. :p
     
  10. ReverendRevolver

    ReverendRevolver Friend of Leo's

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    Ironically, I prefer Japanese offsets to US ones. From the 80s to now, Japan has been making fender brand Mustangs, Jaguars, and JMs that are fantastic. I'd about say that pound for pound you have to be in the Ultra series before the US one is composed of better parts, and then it's mostly the finish that stands out.
    A current production cheapest Japanese Gretsch > current lowest and higher US Gibsons.
     
  11. takauya

    takauya Tele-Meister

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    Oh, I meant it in general and instruments particularly guitars are different.
    People here do love and consider made in USA guitars as a higher quality than MIJ guitars.
     
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  12. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    What I heard in the 50's and 60's (about a city in Japan being named America) was probably an ugly rumor, born from the anti-Japanese resentment still remaining from WWII. @stxrus and @kbold also pointed out that I wasn't the only person to have heard this. Thanks for the Snopes reference. (now, why didn't I think of that?) As to my personal experience....EVERY "modern" made in Japan guitar has been excellent, as well as every Honda, Sony, etc product I've owned. As I mentioned in my first reply, Made in America in and of itself carries no weight with me.....a good product is a good product. ;)
     
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  13. ndcaster

    ndcaster Doctor of Teleocity

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    materials
    design
    labor
    fabrication

    all originate and take place in the USA, unless some materials do not and cannot for natural/geological reasons
     
  14. buster poser

    buster poser Friend of Leo's

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    Easy, it's propaganda.
     
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  15. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Well aside from the mistaken thread title that brought all the unavoidable comments about America being a continent?
    The whole Made in USA thing has become more of an idea, where it used to be something different.

    Made in USA guitars had included rain forest woods and sometimes Canadian maple for 100 years, and the making of the guitars in the USA allowed them to be called Made in USA because the US was where they were MADE.

    Recent years problems after US automakers shut plants as did aircraft makers like Boeing, resulting in great US cities urban citizens homes being abandoned.
    I've been in Berlin and it was a stark oddity to see that a very old city has almost not old buildings because they were all destroyed.
    Detroit has a similar mass destruction thing going on where whole abandoned neighborhoods are rotting into the ground as boarded up homes of blue collar working families who lost jobs and lost homes due to corporate board room choices made over and over to effectively drop the bomb on massive work forces, one by one, destroying vast swaths of once great US cities.

    What happened later was for better of for worse, probably misguided attempts to force US brands to make all US products in the US.

    But that was obviously a poor plan since in the case of guitars, some wood is grown in foreign countries, and stuff like cobalt for alnico is probably not mined in the US any more.

    I mean a luthier makes guitars like a cabinetmaker makes cabinetry.
    A forest grows trees but nobody thinks the forest makes guitars or cabinets.
    Similarly a lumber mill mills raw lumber but does not make cabinets and guitars.
    Manufacturer labeling regs requiring all raw materials to be sourced in the US are somewhat recent attempts to stop the kind of already finished destruction of US industries.
    Pointless to argue over those frequently changed labeling regs.

    As for bickering over the idea that wanting all locally made goods is dumb or is makes us crazy, that seems pointless too.
    If you like Chinese guitars, and you like supporting THAT economy/ workforce/ infrastructure; I'm sure you who like that will keep supporting it.

    For me the "made in" concept related to who MADE the thing, not where the cobalt was mined or where the trees were cut down.
    Where the boards were glued together and shaped into bodies and necks, that's where the making happened.
     
  16. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    Again, with the inner solar system internecine wars?
     
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  17. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    A factor in all of this is to me the fact that the further from my home area the stuff I buy is made, the less people in my home area are able to find jobs making stuff.
    I grew up making stuff.
    I love making good stuff!
    I love having and using good stuff!
    I love eating good food too and find that locally grown or raised food is often better.

    In Maine there is a high value placed on making stuff, though that seems to be dwindling.
    Ship building is so valued in Maine that for decades all the US Navy vessels built at Bath Iron Works were the only mil contractor consistently ahead of schedule and under budget.
    That came from COMMUNITY that values hand skills, hand made stuff, worker pride, integrity, all those slogany things that have gradually been lost in a society where somehow sitting on the couch and making demands for another plate of food to Alexa has become the new value system core.

    We used to promise "our kids" stuff like if they apply themselves there is a good place for them to thrive here.
    The used to part of that had a critical component which was that ALL OF THOSE KIDS had a future, including kids who were less academically oriented and more hands on worker oriented.

    Vast areas of the US filled with homes built by and owned by blue collar trades people who made great stuff in the US.
    Bickering over the value in that?
    Claiming that having that as a value is some sort of bias against cheap import guitars?
    C'mon guys that's so far from the point.

    Note that as say Western Civilization values shifted into mass consumption of lower and lower quality stuff, consumers may not have noticed that their craving to keep buying the same item over and over, month after month, while defending the new values of hoarding cheap goods, while defaming more expensive goods?

    Do buyers who love cheaper import guitars and have 10-20 of them, do you notice how musicians seem to crave ridiculous numbers of guitars compared to back when guitars dominated popular music?
    And do you notice the correlation between craving large numbers of cheap guitars, as fitting perfectly with corporate telling you to buy large numbers of guitars?
    Corporate including "stupid deal of the day", new batches of "limited edition" and FSR guitars?

    And if you're in the US or some country where trades people had jobs making the great gear you or your parents generations loved, have you noticed the shift away from skilled manufacturing jobs into two classes: Corporate white collar class and service industry class that serves the upper class?

    Pretty much all corporate had to do was get us all to buy five cheap import guitars instead of one locally made guitar, which put more profit into execs accounts while destroying our blue collar neighbors livelihoods.

    Was that a good trade off for us?
    Are we happier and more fulfilled with 20 cheaper guitars rather than three more expensive locally made guitars?
    For that matter and this may apply more to the US where obesity/ heart disease/ diabetes driven by snack food adverts, cheap food adverts, beer and booze adverts, Alexa and Ring doorbell promises we never have to even stand up and get off the couch adverts; has adverts telling us leisure time is a high ideal, is that making the US better?

    Or, can we consider the possibility that we are en masse, falling for a huge corporate ad campaign telling us what to buy and how to use it? Is it possible that ordering more cheap stuff from Alexa while sitting on the couch snacking, is maybe NOT a high ideal?
    And is it maybe even possible that we could be just as happy as guitar players with a LP, a 335, a Strat and a Tele, all made in the countries where they were created to begin with, by local skilled workers?
    You of course do not need to support trades workers whose jobs are being lost to consumers choosing five Squiers rather than one US made Fender. But just the value of five cheap guitars vs one expensive one that many find to be better.

    How are we happier or more fulfilled by hoarding larger numbers of guitars?
    Forget that large numbers of our neighbors are put out of work by our changed habits as consumers.
    JUST the room full of cheaper guitars.
    What is the core of that making us more happy?
    ARE WE really more happy to have 10-20 cheap guitars?

    And how many of us buy another cheap piece of gear for the instant gratification, while craving and lusting after some "too expensive" piece of gear?
    Is it possible that craving large numbers of frequently purchased cheap items, is more obsession with instant gratification?

    Or can we really identify a component in buying cheap gear on a monthly basis, that makes US BETTER HAPPIER PEOPLE?
    Can we also identify some core component that would make us less happy and less functional iw we owned five really top shelf guitars rather than 20 cheaper guitars?
    Would most of us be unhappy and unfulfilled if we strolled into our guitar studio/ man cave/ garage mahal and saw just a fine US 335, US LP, US Tele and US Strat?
    Would our spirits fall to have just a few top shelf bucket list guitars?

    So, what gives?
     
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  18. Digital Larry

    Digital Larry Friend of Leo's

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    I've really had it with them.
     
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  19. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    It all started one Saturday night. My old man was broke, he couldn't go to town and do his usual drinkin' and gamblin'. It was getting dark, they were out of kerosene, about the only thing left to do was hit the sack. I was made, and born in the U.S.A. more specifically just outside Sheffield Alabama.
     
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  20. G.Rotten

    G.Rotten Friend of Leo's

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    Lol. Had it with who?

    There's no bad feelings on my end. I just find it interesting that there is North, Central and South America aka "The Americas". Any country within The Americas could refer to themselves as American if they wanted to and it would not be "less correct" than any other country within the Americas. But that's kind of like saying I'm Earthian. It's a little vague. As a Canadian I wouldn't choose to use American as my handle because it doesn't really say what country I'm from.

    That being said we all know that when someone says they are American that they are from the United States.........of America. There's no need to change anything or have anyone's nose out of joint it just is what it is.

    In any case this has nothing to do with the OP's thread.

    When it comes to mass production of anything these days it more often than not a "World Production". In some ways that's bad and in some ways that's good but it does blur the lines of where something was made.

    I work in Automotive manufacturing and effectively make Japanese cars in Canada using parts sourced from everywhere and I would think the cars would be considered "Made in Canada" because that's where most of the work happened.

    So if Fender has a guitars where (for example) some wood came from Canada, the bridge from Mexico, the tuners from Germany & the wiring harness components from various areas overseas.

    If the raw wood was turned into usable parts/finished in the U.S. and all components put together into a final product in the U.S., then the guitar was Made in the U.S.A.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
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