Playing through a two-amp setup

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by heshan, Jan 17, 2018.

  1. nosuch

    nosuch Friend of Leo's

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    BTW i‘ve daisychained amps by simply running a cable from the second input of the first to the input of the second and never ran into problems. Maybe you are overthinking? As long as as you don‘t mess with the ground connections you will be safe.
     
  2. Bob M

    Bob M Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    +1 on the Radial AB/Y switch. Has phase and ground switching and really makes no extra noise. I initially had a Morley which was a real headache. The radial box doesn't even need power.
     
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  3. muscmp

    muscmp Tele-Afflicted

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    running two amps is a passion of mine. i just use a morley aby pedal and make sure both amps are into the same power strip. it allows me to switch between the amps or just use one at a time. with my 59 princeton, tho, and any other amp, i have to use the HumX by ebtech to eliminate the noise.

    play music!
     
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  4. teleplayr

    teleplayr Tele-Afflicted

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    Depending on what switcher you're using you need to make sure that both amps are "in phase" with each other.

    Play through both amps and watch the speaker cones, if one cone is not moving forward with the other amp simply reverse the speaker leads on one amp where the cones are moving in the same direction.
     
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  5. ebb soul

    ebb soul Poster Extraordinaire

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    Neat tip.
     
  6. Ironwolf

    Ironwolf Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

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    Follow the wet/dry video that was linked earlier. I'm using a Radial Engineering Bigshot ABY to feed an AC15 and a Fender Blues Deluxe. The ABY includes a ground lift, phase reversal and an isolation transformer to match the amps, eliminate ground loops and cut out noise. Two amps running together, especially wet/dry, is astounding enough to make you not want to ever go back to a single amp.

    new pedal board.jpg
     
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  7. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Here's another plug for the Radial Twin-City. It's A/B/Y, so I can play either, or both, and there are LEDs to tell which is active.

    The pedal has phase switching, and ground lift.

    The main thing, all switching is dead silent, no clicks and pops that you may get with the passive A/B/Y pedals, like the Radial Bigshot.

    When I first tried to do this, it was using a cheap A/B/Y, a EHX Switchblade+. No ground lift, so the Y setting, both amps, was useless because of the noise.

    I found my T-C online, lightly used for $100.
     
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  8. LGOberean

    LGOberean Doctor of Teleocity

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    I don't do the two amp thing very often at gigs, and it's been a while. However, I have done this, to good effect. On one occasion, I did an outdoor gig on a large stage with two Peavey Bandits, set up on either side of the stage, sending my guitar signal out to them via the L & R guitar amp outputs of my Boss ME-70.

    [​IMG]
    However, most of the times that I've gone with a two amp set up, I've used a LiveWire Solutions ABY1...

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Both approaches worked will for me, no ground hum issues. The LiveWire Solutions ABY1 sells for $50. How's that for a budget recommendation?
     
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  9. heshan

    heshan Tele-Meister

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    Thanks for explaining! This actually sounds a bit similar to your first reply here, about plugging both amps on a single power strip and lifting the ground on one by using a cheater plug.

    I think I'll try plugging both amps (both with 3 prong cords) into a single power strip and see how that sounds. That should probably convince me to get a proper A/BY box like everyone's suggested!

    However, some cheaper A/BY boxes that are not isolated/phase correcting - these will not really fix the noise/phase issues, right?

    Thanks for all the other replies too. Very helpful as always!
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  10. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Not really. In this case, both amps use their dedicated third-prong chassis grounds, and the goal is to force each circuit to use it's own return path, because the loop is broken.

    In the other case, using a cheater plug on one of the amps, that amp has no ground return path, except what it may find by using that loop connection. The instrument cable. So, if that cable isn't plugged in, but the amp is on, you could have a hard time if something went wrong and then you touched the faceplate. Also, instead of each chassis being forced to use it's own local return path, you're forcing the return path of the cheater-plug amp to go through the other chassis. Not the quietest idea ever.

    @FenderLover, please correct me if I've misinterpreted your posts.
     
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  11. whoanelly15

    whoanelly15 Tele-Holic

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    Thanks for posting. Always fun to hear peoples’ advice here and learn a little. This is off topic, but it got me thinking about the “stereo amps” idea, which I just haven’t really heard much about. I had just recently heard that John Frusciante used to run his Marshall stacks in stereo through a CE (chorus ensemble) unit. Obviously we can’t all spend tens of thousands to get colossal, vintage gear like that, but it’s a cool idea. Wonder if there’s a budget option like that.
     
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  12. heshan

    heshan Tele-Meister

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    Haha I figured I got it wrong. Lol. Thanks
     
  13. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    What does that mean, Marshall stacks in stereo? These aren't stereo amps. They're still just mono. It's my understanding the stereo part happens when we have two outputs from any stereo device (pedal). But at that point, it's really just dual mono, because the signal is identical both sides. But... if you were to use a stereo pedal early on in the chain, and then run different effects to each amp (or simply wet/dry reverb), you now have some meaningful stereo.

    Thoughts?
     
  14. sonicsmitty

    sonicsmitty Tele-Holic

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    While I understand the principle that the speakers from both amps need to be moving in unison (in phase) I don't think the human eye is capable of discerning whether or not the speakers are moving together. After all, if you just play an "A" the speaker would be moving at 440 cycles per second. Seeing that seems like an impossibility. Wouldn't it be much easier to just use your ears?
     
  15. LP26

    LP26 Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    I use a Lehle Little Dual into a one or both of the following 5 watt amps: a Fender 57 Champ and a Gibson GA-5.


    Lehle Little Dual.png
    Lehle's features description:

    The centerpiece of the Lehle Little Dual is its high-end Lehle LTHZ transformer, which electrically isolates output A from output B, making history of hum loops - permanently! The Lehle Little Dual features a gold-plated-contact phase inverter and a gold-plated-contact ground switch. The two inputs can also be routed in stereo to outputs A and B, if you use the stereo signal of an effect unit as the input, for example. This also makes it possible to route instruments equipped with two pick-ups, including many acoustic and hybrid guitars, and also double basses, via two amplifier systems - with no complications. These systems can be operated either in alternation or in parallel - without hum, and without sound losses, needless to say! The Lehle Little Dual - small, but so utterly effective!

    And yes, it does work as advertised.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  16. whoanelly15

    whoanelly15 Tele-Holic

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    That’s the way I took it, but truthfully o didn’t know anything about the chorus ensemble unit before I heard that. I know that one of John’s cabs had a Marshall Major head and the other a Jubilee. So while it might have been switched into a “dual mono” at some point in the chain, the stacks would have their own character on account of that alone. Maybe describing it as “in stereo” is more a functional description than a technical one. It does have me curious about that CE though.
     
  17. knockeduptele

    knockeduptele Tele-Meister

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    The simple way to tell phase with a daisy chain is, does it get quieter when you turn the second amp on? And does it sound very wierd when you stand in the middle - If it does then they are out of phase. Sure the tonestack does a bit of phase stuff too so its not an exact science in multi amp setups.

    Always used to amuse me watching Metal Bands in the quest for volume in the 70s/80s chain Marshall Super leads with Master Volumes - the extra gain stage on the MV inverted the phase.
     
  18. RoscoeElegante

    RoscoeElegante Friend of Leo's

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  19. Clash Telecaster

    Clash Telecaster Tele-Meister

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    Get the affordable (around 60 bucks) Morley A/B/Y box.

    I first bought a BOSS A/B/Y...but for some reason (it was years ago and I can't recall) I returned it. It had issues. Got the Morley instead and it does the job. Two amps at once, one at a time...it was easy to work that out with this guy.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. heshan

    heshan Tele-Meister

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    Thanks. My concern with cheaper boxes like the Morley is that it doesn't seem to be isolated and offer phase correction? Apart from the switching ability, would it differ from using my stereo pedal outputs to send the signal to two amps?
     
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