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Playing the 6th Scale Degree Chord as Major as opposed to the Relative Minor.

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by Rustbucket, Jan 6, 2021.

  1. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Jax closed 4 or 5 years ago. Too bad. It was one of the last 'no cover charge' clubs in LA. And yes, the piano was noticeably out of tune now that you mention it.
     
  2. beeflin

    beeflin Tele-Meister

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    Sittin' On The Dock Of The Bay was composed by Otis Redding, pretty much a non-musician, on guitar. It's all major chords including the IV and VI, possibly because he only knew one chord shape, but when he played it to Steve Cropper, who does know a chunk of theory, Steve didn't change a thing - because it works. Sometimes musical illiteracy bypasses rules that are completely unnecessary.
     
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  3. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Since this song is in a major key, the IV is not a surprise. The II and the III are ‘outside’ as is as you note the VI. As for rules??? There may be a reason why it is called music theory as opposed to music rules or facts???? Sometimes strict adherence to ‘rules’ would get in the way of music.
     
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  4. decibel

    decibel Tele-Meister

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    It's a borrowed chord. Borrowed from the parallel minor key (A melodic minor). Could be viewed as a secondary dominant (V of II), but usually that would resolve to Bm.
     
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  5. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Nah...it ain’t borrowed. The author of the song stole it from the ether. Eeehaw....
     
  6. zencat

    zencat TDPRI Member

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    Could be that he's "tonicizing" the sixth chord, especially if it's moving up a fourth. It will add more harmonic motion to the next chord. Very common in jazz and pop.
     
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  7. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    It's like when I pulled my kids out of school. They were teaching them theory instead of facts!
     
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  8. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity

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    While it seems "normal" for that 6th chord to be a minor, plenty of songs use the F# major.
     
  9. Tom Grattan

    Tom Grattan TDPRI Member Silver Supporter

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    It's a road map. If you're going somewhere and you pick a route that looks good, great, but along the way you start to deviate a bit and then you're going to the same place but a slightly different route. It's a tool to be used to help doing the job, music. IMO nothing is written in stone but if I have some ideas that go a different route, take it, to see where it goes. Music is all about the feeling you're able to put into it and how you express it. Why not use all the tools available.
     
  10. brians356

    brians356 Tele-Meister

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    Twain breaks the rules of grammar and spelling only in character voice, never in narrative voice. Big difference. And, he was always completely aware of what he was doing.
    -
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
  11. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    How is that different than someone who knows theory stretching the boundaries? And how would a talented but uneducated story-teller be any less creative and compelling that a Lit major learning how to write convincingly? Rules are broken in language, syntax and spelling/definitions constantly ... that's how language evolves. Music ... also evolves. In fits and starts, as they say.
     
  12. brians356

    brians356 Tele-Meister

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    I never said language doesn't evolve. (Some might say "deteriorates".) I only pointed out Twain did not break rules, he had his characters do it. In that sense, he was quoting others' mistakes, and might even have invoked the "[sic]" tag.

    You compare language and literature directly to music at your peril. Apples and oranges.
    -
     
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  13. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    Lol. OK.
     
  14. brians356

    brians356 Tele-Meister

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    You're welcome any time.
    -
     
  15. Tsteleplayer

    Tsteleplayer TDPRI Member

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    ok im pretty hillbliiy i guess but either a chord is major or minor. Im sick of you theory people talkin about add this or that to make something that only makes you feel like you know what your talking about. Forget all that and listen to your ears. If you have any music ability in you at all your ears will tell you what fits. For instance i looked up a blues chord ive used many years but didnt know the proper name. Well guess what depending on where positioned or what note you start with 7 different names but still playing the same dam notes. No wonder I didnt the proper name.Well music is music and you ears will tell you unless you cant hold a tune in a bucket.
     
  16. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    Your ear is all you need.
    Are you serious or kidding ... if you are sick of people talking about music theory, why read a thread about music theory? What did you expect us to be talking about?
     
  17. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I want to be the Shaman of "the Theory People".
    We will reclaim Ionia. Who's with me? I got viking horns and plenty of face paint.
     
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  18. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

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    Theory is totally about using your ears. In fact it's a way to methodically train your ear. What other use would it have? Theory, to my way of thinking, is the organization of patterns of sound. Sound...like the stuff your ears hear. Even if two knuckle draggin' "theory people" are yappin' it up at a cocktail party (trying to impress hillbillies) and one pretentious knucklehead says to the other "..and then it goes from the I to the VI and then ii...etc. etc." the rightful presumption is that the person who he is talking to is actually hearing those changes in the theater of his mind. Theory is mistakenly thought to be strictly an intellectual matter when fundamentally it's function is training the ear to recognize patterns of sound whether holding an instrument or away from an instrument while putting little dots on staff paper.
     
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  19. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    Greek settlement in Turkey ... OK, hope that works out for you. While you're there, maybe liberate Phrygia, also. Then you can have adjacent Major and minor kingdoms.
     
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  20. Mr Perch

    Mr Perch Tele-Afflicted

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    Ahem... I believe that Phrygia was liberated back in 1971:

     
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