Play the first gig at a new club for less than your normal rate for the chance of future gigs?

[yelemusic]

We wouldn't have these problems if musicians started to defend their right to earn what they deserve for their work. We should really learn form all the plumbers of this world: nobody in the world would ask them to work for a discount or even for free. You need new plumbing, that's the price.
Us musicians on the other hand are all to willing to sell our craft below value and even let the customer dictate the prices. If we decline a gig, there will be 10 other bands willing to play. This way our craft will never get the recognition it deserves.
None of us should have to play for cheap, as we have put a lot of time, money and effort into our skills so the people can enjoy a great show.
Should we not get the money we deserve, just because we're having fun at the same time? After all the club makes more money with drinks if the place is packed with music lovers!

It's a matter of self respect and awareness, and if musicians could agree not to lowball eachother and to pull in the same direction, much would be gained.
Our work has value, but it's on us to educate them that we can't be had for cheap.

 

[2HBStrat]

.... if musicians could agree not to lowball eachother and to pull in the same direction, much would be gained.
Our work has value, but it's on us to educate them that we can't be had for cheap.

There used to be musicians unions for that very reason!

Just out of curiosity, how many times has this joint changed ownership in the last 10 years?

I think its brand new. It looks brand new and I had never heard of it before.

An extra hour is not "a little bit" longer. Honestly, between asking you to play for a cut rate and then to throw in another hour if it's going well sounds disrespectful. Sure, it's business and money, but that works for both sides. I've been in bands where we'd play for cheap to get exposure and experience, and others where we either got our rate or took a hard pass. If I were a member of a band that meant a lot to me, and everyone else wanted to do a gig, I would swallow my personal wishes and go along simply to please my bandmates.

Right, an hour is NOT a little bit longer. At the gig the BL didn't know if we were supposed to keep playing or not so we kept playing. Finally the manager came out and said "why are you guys still playing?...most bands would have already packed up by now. I was just in the back enjoying the music." YHikes!

JMHO...but in this instance, it's the owner crying "poor-mouth" to you because the other band couldn't work the gig. Yes, true that in some ways it's an "audition", but as was said, do you audition your plumber at 60% his rate? I don't think so. Neither would he, in most cases.
You're in kind of a jam because your other bandmates signed off on the gig without your input. What kind of voting system do you have in place? You should have the right of refusal...and if it were me, I would be informing them that next time they book a gig without your approval, it will be great for them because the money only needs to be split 3 ways that night.
The owner owes you nothing after the gig. He can tell you to kiss off and bring in another band using the same ruse. Your accepting will only embolden him. And asking you to stay late and bring in your own crowd is a slap in the face. Does he expect you to bus tables if things get slow? You are professionals whether Mr Cheapskate thinks so or not (obviously he doesn't). Again, JMHO but I think a band meeting is essential immediately afterwards before your next gig is booked. But that's just me...

Nobody gets shafted but the band, or maybe the servers. And, yes, the club owner owes us nothing. I will be VERY surprised if we get a call for a booking, even though we had, according to the manager, a good night.

In my 55 year career, I've "auditioned" many times, but in the last 35-40 years, I would offer to play the first hour for free. If I stunk up the place, they could just tell me goodbye, which would be like an audition that didn't take. If I did well, I'd be paid to finish the evening, at a 25% discount, and a discussion about future bookings at full price....

I would not do that. The hassle of moving the equipment, setting up, and the playing an hour free or on spec...nope!

 

[muudcat]

I play hard ball after having lowered my price for first time in the door, years ago They either want me for what I cost or not, and I won't lose any sleep over it. As for bringing in a crowd, that's been discussed here before and it BS. The venue should draw people because of it's ambience or vibe and the band, which should be good, just adds to what's already there. I just passed up a date cause the restaurant, that has a huge customer base, won't cough up the extra $50 I charge over what they already get and are willing to pay. So be it, I'll go elsewhere

 

[jonm]

My friend’s 3 piece group got their first gig at a nice Chinese restaurant lounge in Seattle in the 90’s. The owner offered $50 a night. /$150 for 3 nights) plus “meal”.
They thought why not?, we’ll just pratice and eat like kings.
They played the 3 hours for 3 nights and each evening ordered the Golden Dragon for 3 people. At the end the Owner presented them with a bill for like $100 and they complained and repeated his deal back to him. He said (in strong accent): ”not meal,-milk!!!!!”
No lie.

 

[Les H]

The manager said he would tell the owner and the owner should be getting in touch with us about more bookings at our normal rate. We'll see...

Best of luck to you on that.

Unfortunately, I have heard that line before. In my case it was the manager passing the buck because the manager most likely was given the authority to schedule us again right then and there if they chose to. If I left a gig without another gig booked it usually meant we probably weren't going to be back.

The only way to impress someone who wasn't there is probably by the final receipt when they counted the cash register that night and not by how good your band actually was. If the conversation goes like "yeah we had a slower than usual night sales wise but the band was actually really good" it probably isn't going to be in my favor at that point.

For your sake I hope I am wrong but that's how it's played out for me before.

As far as lowering my price to get in the door in hopes of getting future gigs goes I can't say I have never done that but I would never do it again and I don't recommend it to anyone else. You're just allowing yourself to be taken advantage of is all.

 

[Hamstein]

How about this. You have 200 people coming to the bar. You can only afford $600 expense. The plumbing is out and you have to choose between $600 plumber and $600 band. Who you gonna call?

One evening I played a gig and also mended the plumbing in a local social club when the pipes burst in the toilets! Lucky I'd got my tools in the van! Can't remember what we got paid though!

 

[Fret Wilkes]

"This gig will give you exposure".

"Yeah, but you can DIE from exposure!"

 

[Moonrider]

So, since we've never played at this venue the owner only offered us ~60% of our normal rate for the first gig with the idea that if we do well he would book us for more gigs at ~80% of our normal rate.

Thoughts?

That wouldn't be a quick, immediate, and polite "No thanks" from us.
We know what we offer, and we know what we're worth.
There's enough venues in our area that know we're a good value at the price we charge.

Same with "working for the door." We charge $XXX.XX. If you want to put someone on the door and charge a cover to offset your expenses, go for it. We don't want the hassle.

 

[donnyrocker]

Consider the $$ *not* made as a marketing expense. If you claim your income in your taxes, you can claim expenses against it.

Any time a band of mine was asked to play extra hours, a hat was passed or $100 cash was placed in a band member's hand.

Any time a band is engaged on short notice to help out a venue or another band, one would expect extra $$ for helping to solve an emergency (using the plumber example, one *does* get charged more for an emergency/non-scheduled call), not less cash.

This past Saturday during my band's last break, the owner of a new-to-us venue sat down with us to share that he was losing money hiring bands. He's had the venue for just over a year and it's 30 miles/50km away from the nearest city of any real size. He asked about our following (none would travel 30 miles on a good night let alone a winter night) while acknowledging we were from out of the (rural) area. We didn't get into the whole "we have expenses, too" conversation and he did pay us our full amount.

 

[Fiesta Red]

Nope.

Guys who play for cheap or free screw up everything for the rest of us.

Also—they usually suck and/or don’t bring in a good crowd, which makes the venue start reconsidering whether live music is the way to go.

Make your local music scene better—don’t play for free. (Note sarcasm font)

 

[johnny k]

I miss the time when people used to haggle ... Hagling is bad. See ? you say ok we get 60 % percent of the money but we get 20% of the bar money.

 

[johnny k]

Nope.

Guys who play for cheap or free screw up everything for the rest of us.

Also—they usually suck and/or don’t bring in a good crowd, which makes the venue start reconsidering whether live music is the way to go.

Make your local music scene better—shoot a guitarist who’ll play for free. (Note sarcasm font)

 

[Fiesta Red]

?

 

[SerpentRuss]

Our band leader got a call from the leader of another local band. They had a couple of gigs booked in a club in a nearby town and one of their members can't play them and he wanted to know if we could and if we wanted them. We were already booked for one of the nights but could take the other one. So, since we've never played at this venue the owner only offered us ~60% of our normal rate for the first gig with the idea that if we do well he would book us for more gigs at ~80% of our normal rate. The gig is from 7-10 but if the crowd is good "they would like to keep us going a little bit longer to 11 o'clock." Everyone in the band is on board. I'm really not. I think it is, in general, bad form to play cheap. You become that band that plays cheap, and I don't think you ever get the respect you should get and never really get paid what you should get paid. I didn't say this to the band and we booked the gig. Now the band leader has asked us to contact people to get a crowd. WOW! Playing cheap PLUS we have to provide the crowd?!? I'm not feeling good about this at all.

Thoughts?

It has been years since I gigged, but I do know one thing about new venues, they are normally busy for the first couple months while everyone tries them out to see if they're going to be that next great place. Playing once for a reduced rate, with the understanding that you'll never play for less than your band's minimum again, is probably good advertising for the band.

 

[sirshackleton]

A band I had a years ago did a gig sort of like that. I can't remember if we were a last-minute add or what, but normally the club in question preferred to audition first. So we took a cut on the rate and the owner said if he liked us, there would be more opportunities at full rate. The club and owner both had good reputations locally, so we figured the chance to play the venue, if only once, was worth it. But it worked; he liked us and booked us several more times at full rate. We even got put on bills with some national acts.

So, I guess it depends. I'm at the point in my life where I'm just happy to play. I certainly want to be paid fairly if money is on the table, but for the right situation I'd be flexible. Not sure your situation is it, but...

As for "providing the crowd" I would say that unless you're playing a place like a restaurant, winery or brewery (which tend towards having "built-in" crowds) then yeah, that's a normal expectation of a band.

 

[Old Deaf Roadie]

Hard no. The fact that you're gigging at other venues and maybe supplying an MP3 is all the audition you need.

 

[Strat Jacket]

And one more thing;
If the guy is that friggin' cheap, he should just pay for a DJ to play canned music all night. If he wants his place to be known for good live music, then it's his issue to come up with the pay you are asking.

 

[tweeet]

One evening I played a gig and also mended the plumbing in a local social club when the pipes burst in the toilets! Lucky I'd got my tools in the van! Can't remember what we got paid though!

...was hoping you were going to say that you'd got $300 for the gig....and charged them $625 for fixing the toilets

 

[2HBStrat]

Nope.

Guys who play for cheap or free screw up everything for the rest of us.

Also—they usually suck and/or don’t bring in a good crowd, which makes the venue start reconsidering whether live music is the way to go.

Make your local music scene better—don’t play for free. (Note sarcasm font)

Which font is the sarcasm font, cause I probably need to use it quite a bit.

 

[johnny k]

?

i add the sarcasm font !