Play the first gig at a new club for less than your normal rate for the chance of future gigs?

[tweeet]

Another example. I was playing a pub for £160...9-12pm. We agreed £160 and not £180 as he gave me five gigs a year. I played there for three years....then I found out that I was the only guy who did 9-12pm not 9-11pm. The other musicians I spoke to got £160 for 2 hours...so basically he was getting an extra hour out of me for nothing. It was the fact that I was lied to that got my goat. So when the next years gigs were being booked I didn't mention that I knew he'd shafted me...so I asked for £200 for 3 hours....and he had the gaul to tell me that he couldn't afford that and that he'd only pay me £160...so then I told him that I'd spoken to other acts and that I would take myself down the road to his rival pub that wanted me there. The first time I played there all his locals were there which made me feel....FABULOUS .

I'd do the gig for your bandmates this once. Don't play extra unless you agree a fee per hour for doing so !

 

[Clive Hugh]

sounds like a typical rip off bar owner to me. Have just had a similar thing happen to us, told him we are not interested.

 

[2HBStrat]

sounds like a typical rip off bar owner to me. Have just had a similar thing happen to us, told him we are not interested.

I guess we have a decent night. The manager said he would tell the owner and the owner should be getting in touch with us about more bookings at our normal rate. We'll see...

 

[Dennyf]

Just out of curiosity, how many times has this joint changed ownership in the last 10 years?

 

[jrblue]

keep us going a little bit longer

An extra hour is not "a little bit" longer. Honestly, between asking you to play for a cut rate and then to throw in another hour if it's going well sounds disrespectful. Sure, it's business and money, but that works for both sides. I've been in bands where we'd play for cheap to get exposure and experience, and others where we either got our rate or took a hard pass. If I were a member of a band that meant a lot to me, and everyone else wanted to do a gig, I would swallow my personal wishes and go along simply to please my bandmates.

 

[Strat Jacket]

JMHO...but in this instance, it's the owner crying "poor-mouth" to you because the other band couldn't work the gig. Yes, true that in some ways it's an "audition", but as was said, do you audition your plumber at 60% his rate? I don't think so. Neither would he, in most cases.
You're in kind of a jam because your other bandmates signed off on the gig without your input. What kind of voting system do you have in place? You should have the right of refusal...and if it were me, I would be informing them that next time they book a gig without your approval, it will be great for them because the money only needs to be split 3 ways that night.
The owner owes you nothing after the gig. He can tell you to kiss off and bring in another band using the same ruse. Your accepting will only embolden him. And asking you to stay late and bring in your own crowd is a slap in the face. Does he expect you to bus tables if things get slow? You are professionals whether Mr Cheapskate thinks so or not (obviously he doesn't). Again, JMHO but I think a band meeting is essential immediately afterwards before your next gig is booked. But that's just me...

 

[Trenchant63]

I’m confused - the leader of the other band is recommending you. Presumably the club owner trusts the other band leader’s judgement if he plays there regularly. You’d think the other band leader would say to the club owner “I know this other band and they are solid - you are in good hands. I wouldn’t recommend them if I didn’t think so…” If he recommended a lame band, his rep would take a hit from the club owner. As a result - you should get your full fee. The scenario seems weird with this discount fee BS. Also, doesn’t your band have any references from other clubs? I would pass.

 

[regularslinky]

I remember a gig years ago at a place we hadn't played before. It was crowded all night and people liked us. We had packed up and the band leader came to distribute the $.

Leader: I have good news and bad news, what do you want first?
Band: Bad news.
Leader: Owner said they had a slow night at the bar and couldn't pay us what was agreed, so the money is a bit short.
Band: That sucks. What's the good news?
Leader: He wants us back!
Band: So the bad news is that we got screwed and the good news is that we've been invited to get screwed again. No thanks.

Side rant: Imagine the venue owner telling the beer distributor that he can only pay 75% of the beer bill because business was slow. No other vendor would tolerate that. Bands shouldn't either.

 

[Commander]

Our band leader got a call from the leader of another local band. They had a couple of gigs booked in a club in a nearby town and one of their members can't play them and he wanted to know if we could and if we wanted them. We were already booked for one of the nights but could take the other one. So, since we've never played at this venue the owner only offered us ~60% of our normal rate for the first gig with the idea that if we do well he would book us for more gigs at ~80% of our normal rate. The gig is from 7-10 but if the crowd is good "they would like to keep us going a little bit longer to 11 o'clock." Everyone in the band is on board. I'm really not. I think it is, in general, bad form to play cheap. You become that band that plays cheap, and I don't think you ever get the respect you should get and never really get paid what you should get paid. I didn't say this to the band and we booked the gig. Now the band leader has asked us to contact people to get a crowd. WOW! Playing cheap PLUS we have to provide the crowd?!? I'm not feeling good about this at all.

Thoughts?

I would say that is a hard “No!” If the club needs a band for the night, they can pay the full rate or be without a band for the night. Promises of future gigs are just that; Promises. Especially at 80% of the full price normally paid. It sounds like the club is trying to take advantage of the situation. I bet they use the often-used phrase “It would be good exposure for your band…” to justify paying you less. They are assuming that you are “trying to make it big” and that you have to pay your “dues”, and/or need “exposure.” One other thing to consider is that by playing for free or a reduced rate, you are giving the message that you are willing to work on the cheap, and not worthy of full pay. Stand your ground. You may lose that gig, but you will keep your respect and future earnings at full rate.

 

[Bean1871]

Our band leader got a call from the leader of another local band. They had a couple of gigs booked in a club in a nearby town and one of their members can't play them and he wanted to know if we could and if we wanted them. We were already booked for one of the nights but could take the other one. So, since we've never played at this venue the owner only offered us ~60% of our normal rate for the first gig with the idea that if we do well he would book us for more gigs at ~80% of our normal rate. The gig is from 7-10 but if the crowd is good "they would like to keep us going a little bit longer to 11 o'clock." Everyone in the band is on board. I'm really not. I think it is, in general, bad form to play cheap. You become that band that plays cheap, and I don't think you ever get the respect you should get and never really get paid what you should get paid. I didn't say this to the band and we booked the gig. Now the band leader has asked us to contact people to get a crowd. WOW! Playing cheap PLUS we have to provide the crowd?!? I'm not feeling good about this at all.

Thoughts?

I agree with you.

Just my opinion, but the simple answer would be to say “No, thanks, not worth our time.” There are too many questions with this “opportunity.” For instance, how much was the other band expecting to be paid? Why wouldn’t the owner want to pay you the same…you’re doing everyone a favor by filling in a date he otherwise might not be able to fill? And the owner gets to decide if he likes your band or not? His priority is how much the bar is making. Can’t blame him for caring more about his business than the band…
Also: You aren’t doing the other band any favors by taking their gig at a discount, especially if everyone finds out about it (and they will).
I don’t see a win-win, so I (personally) would pass.

 

[Alex_C]

Our band leader got a call from the leader of another local band. They had a couple of gigs booked in a club in a nearby town and one of their members can't play them and he wanted to know if we could and if we wanted them. We were already booked for one of the nights but could take the other one. So, since we've never played at this venue the owner only offered us ~60% of our normal rate for the first gig with the idea that if we do well he would book us for more gigs at ~80% of our normal rate. The gig is from 7-10 but if the crowd is good "they would like to keep us going a little bit longer to 11 o'clock." Everyone in the band is on board. I'm really not. I think it is, in general, bad form to play cheap. You become that band that plays cheap, and I don't think you ever get the respect you should get and never really get paid what you should get paid. I didn't say this to the band and we booked the gig. Now the band leader has asked us to contact people to get a crowd. WOW! Playing cheap PLUS we have to provide the crowd?!? I'm not feeling good about this at all.

Thoughts?

Play 60% of your set or bring 60% of the band.

 

[Leo Paul]

A few times, to get our feet in the door, my band has offered venues new to us, a discount for a first booking. But if they have us back (which most have), regular rate for all future gigs. This seems to have worked well for us and the venues.

 

[dimenjj]

Club owners will always try to skimp when it come to paying entertainment. That’s why I always had a business agent. Yes, it’s another cut of the pie, but a good agent will protect you and your band from getting ripped off. You’re not performing to make club owners rich.

 

[58Bassman]

"We'll play to the level of the pay we receive".

 

[HolmfirthNJ]

As has been said, I wouldn’t worry so much about the 350 for the first gig - especially as that has been agreed now - but after that it’s up to you and your bandmates to set your rate for future gigs, and up to the venue owner if they want to book you… but, generally, it all sounds like a rubbish start, and unlikely to get much better

 

[loudboy]

Thanks. The other three members of the band are all in for doing it, so we're doing it. Only thing now is to hope for the best, I suppose.

How about suggesting that they give you $150, and split the rest between themselves?

"We'll play to the level of the pay we receive".

Steely Dan studio quote - "I thought that take was pretty good, considering what we're getting paid."

 

[archetype]

Yeah, I'm not feeling good about it.

Our normal rate is $600 for most venues. Our first time at this venue is for $350 and IF WE DO WELL he will book us back for $500. The band leader turned down a gig right here in town because they wouldn't pay the $600 but is willing to play in another town for $350. I don't understand the logic.

Nope. I wouldn't. I also wouldn't try to understand someone else's logic. It doesn't affect you, other than wasting time trying to figure it out.

 

[58Bassman]

How about suggesting that they give you $150, and split the rest between themselves?

Steely Dan studio quote - "I thought that take was pretty good, considering what we're getting paid."

Blues Bros v2, but without drinking all of the pay and owing the bar for the balance.

 

[39martind18]

In my 55 year career, I've "auditioned" many times, but in the last 35-40 years, I would offer to play the first hour for free. If I stunk up the place, they could just tell me goodbye, which would be like an audition that didn't take. If I did well, I'd be paid to finish the evening, at a 25% discount, and a discussion about future bookings at full price. I didn't always get the future bookings, but in doing this well over 350 times, while going home only twice in that time period. My success rate to get the repeat bookings? About 85%. These days, I offer a 10% discount for a monthly repeating gig. About 60% of my bookings are the monthly variety, and I'm gigging 2-3 times a week, on average, for an average of 10- 15 gigs a month. The income from this activity is not a living, but it sure is nice to have in addition to mt teacher retirement and Social Security.

 

[tele_jas]

I've been in few different, but very similar, situations. Some were a solid "NO" and some were a solid "YES", while some were a "let's talk about this".

If it's a high profile club, hard to get in to and you know you'll do good in and they'll want you back, sometimes the discounted intro rate is a good way to "get your foot in the door". I've been known to sell our band this way, at first, when trying to get into a new place.

If it's somewhere that you don't feel you'll work out, or isn't a good fit, I'd say "NO". (or you feel they'll try to low-ball you for the next time)

I've also agreed to do this same thing, and get stuck at that rate with the owner/booker saying "you played for $XXX amount last time, that's what we'll offer this time too".

Each situation is different:
Sometimes, a lower paying gig can result in a GREAT gig later.
Sometimes, a lower paying gig can generate contacts and better/future gigs elsewhere
Sometimes, the owner will come up after the gig and pay you full price (has happened before)
Sometimes, you get screwed.

You can look at it 2 ways:
1) Don't sell yourself short and settle for less than what your worth, or what other clubs are paying
2) Don't let a little money ruin a good chance

Only you know the situation?