Pickup wiring, something weird is going on.

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by GreatDaneRock, Dec 11, 2018.

  1. GreatDaneRock

    GreatDaneRock Tele-Afflicted

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    Hi guys.

    I'll be installing a vintage 52 single-coil in the bridge, should have arrived today but thanks to Christmas mail is delayed by one day, but I've noticed the following on my control plate.

    Every Telecaster wiring diagrams I've seen shows the tone capacitor should be grounded on one of the legs. Mine is actually connected to both center lugs of the volume and tone pots. Before removing old pickup I made sure vol and tone worked correctly.

    There's also some other oddities going on. The wire that connects one of the outer lugs to the switching control should also be connected to the tone pot, and it's not. Maybe the way this is wired is electrically the same as most of the diagrams I've seen, but I don't see it. What am I missing? See attached image.

    The pots are also 500k, which I think it's not typical of a MIM Telecaster. All soldering looks professionally done, Factory I might even say so. The guitar did come with a chopper T humbucker installed that I'm replacing and I'm thinking that maybe the previous owner had also 500k pots installed and some custom wiring done, hence why it looks the way it looks. I'm attaching a picture for you guys to look at in chime in. Keep in mind the wiring for the bridge pickup is missing as I'm waiting on it, but it doesn't affect the concerns I've raised in my OP.

    Thanks in advance for all your help

    20181211_122004.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  2. GreatDaneRock

    GreatDaneRock Tele-Afflicted

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    As a reference, this is the typical 3-way selector wiring scheme you find everywhere, I do have a 3-way selector.

    2018-12-11 12.37.42.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
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  3. waparker4

    waparker4 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    That circuit is ALMOST! equivalent to the one you've seen. I doubt it is factory wiring because MIM Telecasters ship with 250K pots afaik, and they don't wire it this way at the factory.

    The circuit you expect is signal -> variable resistor -> capacitor -> ground

    The circuit you have is signal -> capacitor -> variable resistor -> ground. Functionally they are equivalent.

    The biggest difference you have is that this tone pot is wired off the volume pot OUTPUT -> that makes it the "50's wiring mod", or Fezz Parka / Ted Greene if you want to search TDPRI back several years for hundreds of threads. It is a wiring mod that is intended to retain treble as the volume pot is turned down.


    This is the most common one that I am talking about

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. GreatDaneRock

    GreatDaneRock Tele-Afflicted

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    Awesome reply wp4, answers all my questions. And i almost posted that same SD wiring diagram.

    I was hoping that the wiring would have some sort of treble retention, as I would really like retaining treble as I roll down my vol. I'm really good at soldering and troubleshooting but sometimes elctronics schemes can be a bit confusing. I can read circuit diagrams and block diagrams no problem go figure. But when things are wired they can look a bit confusing, thanks again my friend.

    GDR
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
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  5. GreatDaneRock

    GreatDaneRock Tele-Afflicted

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    In searching all threads related to 50's wiring mods and Fezz Parka mods, I still cannot find a single diagram/picture/schematic that resembles how my controls are wired. It does makes me a little anxious not knowing exactly what's going on.

    Maybe I'm not looking in the right places?
    GDR
     
  6. Tuxedo Poly

    Tuxedo Poly Friend of Leo's

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    Yhe closest I can find is a modified "Fezz Parka" 4 way Phostenix diagram. The tone pot connections are not identical to yours but electrically are the same.

    4_way_Phostenix_Fezz_Parka.jpg
     
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  7. jvin248

    jvin248 Doctor of Teleocity

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    .

    50s wiring is used by some to retain treble. However it often makes the interaction of the volume and tone pots unexpected like turning down the tone knob also changes volume. I tried it before and didn't like that. I have had much better luck with treble bleed circuits. Look up 'JohnH' thread on 'treble bleed' at the 'guitarnuts2' forum and you'll learn all the ways and how to tweak treble bleeds for best operation.

    .
     
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  8. GreatDaneRock

    GreatDaneRock Tele-Afflicted

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    Hi guys.

    Ok, more developments. I installed the new Vintage 52 bridge pickup without any complications. I also replaced the nut, which took more time than I expected. I had to sand the Tusq XL bottom tab and then fit and finish it, going slow and taking measurements along the way. Then the mandatory whole setup again (truss rod, action, intonation).

    If you look at my OP, the guitar is wired with 500k pots and some sort of Fezz Parka/Ted Greene mod wiring. The guitar originally came with a Dimarzio Chopper T in the bridge, maybe the tech who did the work recommended this wiring mod(?). Well, the guitar sounds incredibly bright and ice picky in the bridge position, obnoxious. I also took the time to check the neck pickup, regrettably is the MIM ceramic garbage. That will get replaced at a later stage, as it sounds very dull to my ears. Anyways, the control wiring needs to be changed pronto.

    I went the simple route and ordered a fully assembled wiring harness, traditional 3-way, from Reverb. Total cost $36.95 free shipping. Not bad at all. Parts used are: 2 CTS/Mojotone 450G 250k Potentiometers, 1 Mojotone/Oak Grigsby style 3-way switch,1 Switchcraft mono input jack, 1 Sprague/Orange Drop .047uf capacitor, Cloth covered 22 gauge black and white wire.

    Screen Shot 2018-12-13 at 2.05.23 AM.png

    Are these quality components in your opinion?

    I'll update once the new harness is installed.

    GDR
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  9. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Yeah, the new one looks fine, but of course is NOT the 50s wiring. So, you may want to either change that, or install a treble bleed, if you don't want to lose treble when rolling down the volume.
     
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  10. GreatDaneRock

    GreatDaneRock Tele-Afflicted

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    Yes, I'm aware of this being standard wiring. I'll give it a shot before firing up the iron. The new wiring also uses a .047 cap instead of the .022 currently in the circuit, so I'm guessing between the 250K pots and new cap, the ultra brightness/ice pickiness should go away.

    In all honesty I almost never touch the tone knob. I've even thought about removing the tone control from all my guitars, just volume. That's a leap I'm not yet ready to take :D
     
  11. GreatDaneRock

    GreatDaneRock Tele-Afflicted

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    Edited, sticking with modern wiring for now. One step at a time. If that is not to my liking, then 50's wiring mod.

    GDR
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
  12. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Just to clarify, if you never use the tone pot, then cap value is largely irrelevant, and won't affect icepick.
     
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