Physics: Large Hadron Collider suggests a new particle carrying a fifth force of nature.

JL_LI

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This modern physics stuff is what makes distortion pedals work.
The function of transistors has nothing to do with the high energies explored at CERN, but a transistor is actually a quantum mechanical device and your dirt pedal is depending it’s transistors. Fuzz pedals depend on Germanium transistors. Modern physics or modern applied physics, even those who don’t think knowledge is important depend on it.
 

Quexoz

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Yet they then build a giant machine, and find what they had theorized about, thereby proving it. Makes tons more sense to me.
From what I've read, they collect billions of dollars, and build a giant machine and theorize about what it did. I am aware of no proof of anything. But, like I said, I am still perplexed by paper cone speaker and telephone tech. I'm talking rotary phones...cell phones are black magic!
 

Killing Floor

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From what I've read, they collect billions of dollars, and build a giant machine and theorize about what it did. I am aware of no proof of anything. But, like I said, I am still perplexed by paper cone speaker and telephone tech. I'm talking rotary phones...cell phones are black magic!
This is funny to me because one of my cousins is a flight director for Chandra and his full time job is searching for black holes. Every time we get together I ask him about the black holes we throw our money into.
 

JL_LI

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This thread has been interesting to me because of the "new" physics. But what I'd like to share with fellow TDPRI members is a lesson about it that may not be obvious on the surface.

The lesson is about how science works. In our common experience things are known, known as an absolute. Water flows down. Salt dissolves in water. In science, nothing is known. Things have been shown to be true to a high degree of certainty. Five sigma is simply a statistical measure of a high enough degree of certainty for physicists to accept that something is true. What we're seeing here isn't really "new" physics as the blogs and newswires call it. It's the beginning of a process.

The Standard Model has been accepted as true with a high degree of confidence because nothing has been found in any experiment that has been run to contradict it... until now. The Standard Model is not a theory of everything. It's a theory of how particles of everyday matter are constituted and how they interact. It doesn't draw conclusions about things we can detect but know little about. It doesn't include dark matter, for instance.

What the anomalous decay of the bottom or beauty quark actually represents is the first crack in the Standard Model. The Standard Model predicts an equal likelihood that the decay products of a beauty quark will include an electron or a muon (like an electron, only heavier). That has been shown not to be the case. More electrons are produced than expected. So what physicists thought was true, isn't quite as true as they thought. The certainty is gone. Why?

Science makes progress by answering that question. Why? The Standard Model is a theory, not a statement of fact. Is an as yet unseen fifth force responsible for the unexpected distribution of decay products? Is there something about the weak force that we do not understand?

This is the reason for all of the excitement. Will this lead to a theory that explains why normal matter predominates over antimatter in our universe? Is there an unexpected interaction between dark matter and normal matter and this is just a first glimpse? Have we finally reached an energy at the LHC where we will begin to see previously unseen particles or forces? I hesitate to say new particles because they are not new, just unknown. So the door is open a crack. Something different from what we were expecting slipped out.

The physics we knew before yesterday isn't wrong. Our knowledge was incomplete. It's still incomplete. Think of this as a clue. Something is telling us, look here. I think this is a momentous discovery. Look here!
 
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getbent

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This thread has been interesting to me because of the "new" physics. But what I'd like to share with fellow TDPRI members is a lesson about it that may not be obvious on the surface.

The lesson is about how science works. In our common experience things are known, known as an absolute. Water flown down. In science, nothing is known. Things have been shown to be true to a high degree of certainty. Five sigma is simply a statistical measure of a high enough degree of certainty for physicists to accept that something is true. What we're seeing here isn't really "new" physics as the blogs and newswires call it. It's the beginning of a process.

The Standard Model has been accepted as true with a high degree of confidence because nothing has been found in any experiment that has been run to contradict it... until now. The Standard Model is not a theory of everything. It's a theory of what particles of everyday matter are constituted and how they interact. It doesn't draw conclusions about things we can detect but know little about. It doesn't include dark matter, for instance.

What the anomalous decay of the bottom or beauty quark actually represents is the first crack in the Standard Model. The Standard Model predicts an equal likelihood that the decay products of a beauty quark will include an electron or a muon (like an electron, only heavier). That has been shown not to be the case. More electrons are produced than expected. So what physicists thought was true, isn't quite as true as they thought. The certainty is gone. Why?

Science makes progress by answering that question. Why? The Standard Model is a theory, not a statement of fact. Is an as yet unseen fifth force responsible for the unexpected distribution of decay products? Is there something about the weak force that we do not understand?

This is the reason for all of the excitement. Will this lead to a theory that explains why normal matter predominates over antimatter in our universe? Is there an unexpected interaction between dark matter and normal matter and this is just a first glimpse? Have we finally reached an energy at the LHC where we will begin to see previously unseen particles or forces? I hesitate to say new particles because they are not new, just unknown. So the door is open a crack. Something different from what we were expecting leaked out.

The physics we knew before yesterday isn't wrong. Our knowledge was incomplete. It's still incomplete. Think of this as a clue. Something is telling us, look here. I think this is a momentous discovery. Look here!

okay, show of hands... other than toto's dad, who doesn't get this? note, doesn't get?
 

Toto'sDad

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okay, show of hands... other than toto's dad, who doesn't get this? note, doesn't get?
Though I appreciated your haste, and goodwill in pointing out the deficiency of logic, and or comprehension possessed by Toto'sDad, I think you are confusing failing to understand, with one of two other possibilities.

1:

Does not care.

2:

Does not believe.

A man came to Milagro. His mission was to teach the inhabitants about things which they did not comprehend or understand.

The inhabitants responded by saying, chances are around here, if folks don't already know something, they aren't interested.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this position in life, because having an open mind only leads to someone tossing their trash into it.
 

Toto'sDad

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Toto'sDad is the bulwark of resistance to change that those who would change the world beat against. It is a lonely vigil he keeps against the forces of change, but he is unyielding, and relentless.
 

getbent

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Though I appreciated your haste, and goodwill in pointing out the deficiency of logic, and or comprehension possessed by Toto'sDad, I think you are confusing failing to understand, with one of two other possibilities.

1:

Does not care.

2:

Does not believe.

A man came to Milagro. His mission was to teach the inhabitants about things which they did not comprehend or understand.

The inhabitants responded by saying, chances are around here, if folks don't already know something, they aren't interested.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this position in life, because having an open mind only leads to someone tossing their trash into it.


if you got it, you wouldn't have 1 or 2. You refuse to get it. it is a choice. it isn't negative or positive. it is just your choice.
 

JL_LI

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Though I appreciated your haste, and goodwill in pointing out the deficiency of logic, and or comprehension possessed by Toto'sDad, I think you are confusing failing to understand, with one of two other possibilities.

1:

Does not care.

2:

Does not believe.

A man came to Milagro. His mission was to teach the inhabitants about things which they did not comprehend of understand.

The inhabitants responded by saying, chances are around here, if folks don't already know something, they aren't interested.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this position in life, because having an open mind only leads to someone tossing their trash into it.
Hi TD,
You're way too intelligent to believe nonsense like that. And you know it. :lol:

As for me, what comes with an open mind is a voracious appetite for knowledge. Even the trash is useful if you can pick through it for the occasional tidbit of useful knowledge.

Does not believe? I probably use that word, believe, differently from most. Belief, for me, is reserved for those things for which there isn't adequate proof to hold them to be true. String theory for instance. It's unproveable. The scientific term is unfalsifiable. What it represents is a set of equations from which this universe, or any other universe can be understood. It's not crazy, just obtuse. Think of it as an orchestra with every imaginable instrument. Choose from them to compose a work that describes a universe just like ours. Think of how the instruments will interact. Think about melody, harmony, dissonance, modes, structure and everything music entails. It's a little more complicated than that or every string banger would be a physicist but you're an intelligent guy. You get the idea. And yes. Sometimes you have to sift through the trash to find that precious nugget you're missing.

In physics world, the beauty quark decay anomaly is just such a nugget. Open wide and take it all in.
 




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