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Pentatonic adjunct thread : a chops/advanced player you revere loves a “simple” guitarist you don’t

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Mike Eskimo, Jul 13, 2020.

  1. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Telefied Ad Free Member

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    A couple folks in that pentatonic thread made the “ugh” face at even having to think about a guitarist who relies on a simpler pattern/box/framework for most/all of their work.

    But for those who disdain blues or AC/DC or anything really elemental , how do you react when learning that an “advanced” musician you do love/respect, themself love a bunch of music that YOU find simplistic/dunder-headed and not worth listening to ?

    I don’t want to get into a discussion about the often dead-end creative street of “chops” or the value of knowing advanced theory :rolleyes:o_O , but a guy that immediately comes to mind is the great John Williams ( the guitarist not the Star Wars composer ) and his reverence of and respect for both Clapton and Pete Townshend.

    Do you just chalk it up to an inexplicable lapse in taste or have we finally made the leap into realizing that there’s not really good or bad, it’s just what you like - or don’t ?
     
  2. teletail

    teletail Tele-Afflicted

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    Just my 2 cents, but I think there IS good and bad, it's just completely unrelated to what you do or don't like. Too many people think if they like someone that makes them good, if they don't like them, that makes them bad. There are plenty of really good guitarist that I don't care for and a couple that aren't very good, but I still like them.
     
  3. Tommy Biggs

    Tommy Biggs Friend of Leo's

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    I definitely am willing to accept that a truly talented person that I admire likes something that I don't and am willing to listen again and decide for myself. It doesn't diminish my admiration or respect for that person. We're all different. (I can't take Andrea Bocelli).
     
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  4. E5RSY

    E5RSY Doctor of Teleocity

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    I'm on board with that.

    If we base it on pure emotional response, I easily feel a similar effect and appreciation when listening to Williams (since he was mentioned. "From the Jungles of Paraguay" is one of my all-time favorite albums.), as I do when listening to Pixies, Ramones, Luna, Chuck Berry, etc.

    I have learned to trust my subconscious. It's pretty much unaffected by the musical snobbery/elitism my conscious mind can be susceptible to at times.
     
  5. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Telefied Ad Free Member

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    And I myself once wore the love of chops and fusion and advanced music like a badge of honor .

    Now I think most 3 chord blues songs have two chords too many and Return to Forever is musical water boarding .

    We change/evolve ...
     
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  6. mikestearns

    mikestearns Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    I think the measure of good or bad is whether you're able to accomplish what you're trying to or not. That means different things to different musicians.
     
  7. 3-Chord-Genius

    3-Chord-Genius Poster Extraordinaire

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    To me it doesn't matter a whole lot who my favorite guitarists like to listen to - I listen to what I like, and if EVH says that he was influenced by Eric Clapton (which he has stated), that's great; however, he was also heavily into Allan Holdsworth, and you can really hear that influence in his playing, especially on Fair Warning and 1984.
     
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  8. fakeocaster

    fakeocaster Tele-Afflicted

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    I don't think it means anything as taste is subjective, I love listening to Hound Dog Taylor and Django Reinhardt and love playing their music. They both do it better than I do
     
  9. Rob R

    Rob R TDPRI Member

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    Clapton and Townshend are not only great players, but they're also great songwriters. Fairly complex harmonies/progressions, particularly Townshend. I can see why Williams would appreciate them.
     
  10. Ebidis

    Ebidis Tele-Afflicted

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    I like what I like, and don't really try to analyze why I like it. For me music is an emotional response; it is either there, or it isn't.

    I could not possibly care less if someone else (famous or not) likes something that I don't, or doesn't like something that I do, because it has no effect whatsoever on anything that matters in my life.
     
  11. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Yeahhh...but can’t the mark of a “great” artist also be making something out of seemingly nothing ?

    i.e., what if one of John Williams favorite Who songs is Cant Explain ?
    The elementalness of rock ‘n’ roll that can make a free/unbound/human person tap their foot and say “F*** yeah !”

     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  12. Sconnie

    Sconnie Tele-Afflicted

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    Lately I've found myself only being impressed by guitarists who can follow a progression. I think the main gripe people have with "pentatonic" or "simple" players is that they stay put in one box/pattern and only play those few notes next to each other right there nearby. I agree that's a snooze fest most of the time. Playing scales during a song is not the same as knowing how to play into the song. (I guess that's my $0.02 on the other thread you mentioned.)

    So, not picking on you at all for AC/DC as an elemental example, but it will actually be a good example for my view on this! (...nesting dolls of your example...:lol:)

    For me, Chuck Berry is the elemental player, and a guy like Angus Young is the far more prolific player. Listen to AC/DC's "Ride On" for an example. Angus follows that progression so well he actually leads the chord changes at times and that anticipation/tension you find yourself feeling is very hard to achieve IMO. The best part: he's playing, at most, embellished versions of the pentatonic simpleton scale haha. So he would be a guy I revere who loves an even more "simple" player than he is haha!

    As they say (paraphrasing): it's not the size (of your scale vocabulary) that matters, it's how you use what you've got.
     
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  13. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    What's an example of this, a Who song with a complex progression?
     
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  14. Telenator

    Telenator Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    So much of this also has to do with where we come from.
    I taught guitar for several years. There were some great students and some others that didn't aspire to the same heights.
    For me, the important thing is that they were having fun and learning something.
    Then there were the guys who swore they wanted to be great, yet never practiced and couldn't break out of the patterns.

    I love looking at someone's potential and helping them to achieve the things they desire as a player. I have also seen the things that get in their way.
    This is kinda where I'm coming from.
     
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  15. Telenator

    Telenator Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    Behind Blue Eyes. A very well written rock song.
     
  16. Wallaby

    Wallaby Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    I'm reminded of my own musical limitations when I hear something earthy and elemental that really moves the listener. Hearing something from John Lee Hooker or R.L. Burnside and then listening to my own lame attempts - or the attempts of the "greats". It's humbling. How it works is not simple at all.

    There's more to music than theory and technique and guitars. I'll never criticize someone for what moves them, it's better to listen and learn.
     
  17. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Telefied Ad Free Member

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    How about this -

    How about a Chick Corea song with two chords that hits millions of people right in the gut/in the groin/in the heart ?


    I wasted a good portion of my life listening to “fancy“ music !

    I could’ve been listening to Buck Owens or John Lee Hooker Or The NY Dolls and instead I was trying to digest Stravinsky and Bartok and stupid Alphonse Mouzon ! :mad:

    (sorry Alphonse - nothing personal...)
     
  18. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    You know full well that Chick wrote tunes, not songs.
     
  19. E5RSY

    E5RSY Doctor of Teleocity

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    Interesting you should say that. My wife, well familiar with the wide array of music I love, asked me once what makes me enjoy and love an artist or band. It's hard to put into words, obviously. The best I could come up with was "They have set a worthwhile target for themselves; and they hit what they're aiming at, consistently."
     
  20. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Is that what they were ?
     
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