Pedals vs Helix

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by dsouza, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. dsouza

    dsouza TDPRI Member

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    if you had to choose between using a pedalboard consisting of a eventide timefactor, line 6 verbzilla, ts808 or a helix Hx with expression pedal going for the same price which would you pick?

    I’m going for sound quality mainly? Which would sound richer, less noisy and warmer on my ac10?

    Sorry if you’ve seen a similar thread before as that one was deleted.

    Cheers!
    D
     
  2. mindlobster

    mindlobster Tele-Afflicted

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    I'd take option A. I've got nothing against Helix - I use the Helix plug-in for nearly all my guitar stuff. But in front of a real amp, I think option A is better. I also have the Eventide Pitch Factor and H9, and their stuff just adds something, it sounds so good.
     
  3. jannodude

    jannodude Tele-Afflicted

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    You can achieve great sounds using either setup but it depends on your application:

    If you are playing those pedals through a tube amp the pedals may work or sound better in comparision to running a Helix into tube amp.

    A Helix would work best with a powered FRFR speaker (Powercab, QSC, JBL, Alto) or through a PA system. However, others seem to be pleased running a Helix into a tube amp.

    Are you able to try your amp with a Helix?

    One thing to consider, it’s easier to adjust knobs on pedals than building a patch for the Helix (as it requires tweaking and fine tuning).

    A major advantage the Helix has over the pedals is the ability to record. You’re able to utilize the Helix as an audio interface direct into your computer/DAW. No need for “micing”.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
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  4. dsouza

    dsouza TDPRI Member

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    Did I not make myself clear? I’m running a helix Hx. That’s the Hx effects designed to work specifically with tube amps.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  5. jannodude

    jannodude Tele-Afflicted

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    You stated “helix Hx” on your original post. It’s either a Helix Floor/LT/Rack/Native or HX Stomp/HX Effects. Thanks for the clarification as we would have never known which model you were specifically talking about.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
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  6. LeicaBoss

    LeicaBoss Tele-Holic Gold Supporter

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    I did a listening test of three real pedals vs HELIX, of recorded sound samples through an amp. 203 guitarists took the survey. More than one notable pedal builders took the survey.

    Not one person did very well and the responses were no better than random choice, no matter how experienced they were or what their opinion on "digital" was.

    From a sound standpoint, HELIX is basically no different than the pedals it models (with a few exceptions like fuzz & wah, a few delays)

    In person, you can feel a difference. I don't have golden ears but can feel it.

    That's the best answer I have
     
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  7. dsouza

    dsouza TDPRI Member

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    What about noise? I used to record off my ac4 with an m13 but now I record off my ac10 with the helix effects and it sounds more muffled and noisy.

    Volume wise I had the ac4 on 1 watt and the Ac10 on volume position 1 which is basically the equivalent of 1 watt.

    The ac10 and Hx fx sound worse on recordings. It’s either the ac10 or the Hx fx or both. I’ve heard the Hx fx can be a noisy multi effects unit.

    But I’m not sure. Don’t have the ac4 anymore to compare.
     
  8. Plumber

    Plumber Tele-Holic

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    perhaps you just need to work harder with what you already have

    I can make pretty much anything work

    I'm sure you can to with such lovely equipment
     
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  9. dsouza

    dsouza TDPRI Member

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    @Plumber

    Yeah I’m going to try recording from additional mic angles over the next week to see if I can nail an optimal sound with the Hx effects. Otherwise, it’s going.
     
  10. jvin248

    jvin248 Poster Extraordinaire

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    .

    Individual pedals instead of the Helix.
    More flexibility of swapping individual pedals in/out/different.
    Different as in completely different types of pedals ("you need a Rat!") or say a $25 clone of a TS808.

    If you need something for cab sims for recording or direct to PA then find a Joyo American Sound ($30 or less) -- so don't make that the deciding factor to get a Helix.


    Start watching around 18minutes for the comments about how the 20yo POD stays up with the Helix/Kemper

    .
     
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  11. codamedia

    codamedia Friend of Leo's

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    The HX Effects has nothing to do with getting a good sound with mic angles.

    How does the rig sound in the room? If you don't have that nailed, don't even bother trying to put a mic on it.
     
  12. Thin white duke

    Thin white duke Tele-Afflicted

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    I was going to buy the Mooer Radar but this morning i've tried in depth the Joyo that i already have and a Hughes and Kettner red box 3 placed after on a P.A. and i got a really nice sound, the Joyo eq. is very powerful, the overdrives sounded very full and no harsh sound was coming out from the P.A.

    Sometimes you just need to go deeper when trying things, the Mooer sounded good as well but not xlr out and all i need is one good clean sound at the end of the pedalboard so i'm really happy with what i've got.....
     
  13. Anacharsis

    Anacharsis Tele-Meister

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    I would use the individual pedals. If I am using a multi-fx, it's because I also need an amp simulator. Otherwise, I go with pedals. I just prefer the modularity, flexibility, physical knobs on each pedal, and range of sound options that pedals provide. The Helix HX is a fine product, of course, so it's hard to go too far wrong.
     
  14. -Hawk-

    -Hawk- Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Are you playing live? I think one thing L6 does extremely well is streamline workflow for gigging musicians.

    For example, instead of turning on overdrive pedal and a delay for a solo, you can program the HX Effects to do both at the same time. It’s also great for adjusting the controls on an effect automatically- maybe you like a hint of overdrive and delay during part of the song, but want both more prominent during a solo.

    As for sound quality:

    -Some of the drives are very good.
    -The delays are excellent.
    -The reverbs are mediocre compared to high-end pedals.
    -Modulations are mostly solid.

    The real benefit over standalone pedals is the amount of control you have over them and how many are there at your fingertips.
     
  15. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Poster Extraordinaire

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    I doubt any human could tell if I was using my Boss GT100 multifx or pedalboard when going through a cranked amp.

    I imagine a Helix would be as good.

    I have far more practical problems gigging with pedals.. connections breaking, knobs getting kicked off their settings or twisted by the guitar lead. Needing to mess between numbers making adjustments is archaic. It gets really expensive really quickly of you want to switch more than one at once.

    My multifx unit has knobs... select a pedal on the screen and the knobs control it... simple. I can put it in manual mode and have loads of different ‘pedal boards’ too.
     
  16. dsouza

    dsouza TDPRI Member

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    You are exactly right on this point. The delay sounds great on first 2 songs but on 3rd my wife says it’s too ringy and noisy. All 3 songs have virtually identical delay times and feedback. It could end up having to do with the specific strings, notes, and timing of the last song. The exact same delay is more prevalent in song #3 and thus the problem noticeable here.

    I think I’m going to separate All 3 songs into different presets and come up with new configuration for song #3 specifically until it sounds great live and ONLY then record like you said.

    I have a feeling this exact same problem could come up with the timefactor so it may not be an Hx fx vs pedals problem even.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2019
  17. WireLine

    WireLine Tele-Afflicted

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    I pretty much use the HX Effects exclusively now. Played alone the effects I use sound GREAT (I wouldn’t use it if they didn’t), and fit perfectly in context...

    To be fair, I have no need for much of the capabilities, but needed versatility and superlative sounds in the effects I do use...and the HX gives me that
     
  18. Fiesta Red

    Fiesta Red Friend of Leo's

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    I have no experience with the Helix systems, but...

    With individual pedals, I can sift through all the offerings and pick the absolute best one (for me)—the fuzz or OD or delay or whatever that fits my style and taste...with a multieffects unit, I may have access to 120 different overdrives (or whatever effect you’re comparing), but if I only like one or two of them, what’s the point?

    I prefer pedals on a good buffered power supply over a multieffect, almost every time
     
  19. Fred Rogers

    Fred Rogers Tele-Afflicted

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    I use both. I have a few pedals into my HX Effects. It's a great unit that replaced my Eventide H9.
     
  20. dsouza

    dsouza TDPRI Member

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    I believe you named the ultimate answer. A great musician would never pick a black and white answer. Pedals or multi fx . They’d use both adjusting simultaneously to get the best of both worlds.

    For example the looper on the Hx can’t save loops. Same with the timefactor. Adding a pro looper to the Hx fx chain would solve the problem while still giving you 100+ effects.

    Before I sell my Hx fx I’m going to experiment with it as much as possible. Only then can I make a proper decision.
     
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