Paul Weller RIPS into the Cure front man Robert Smith

[aging_rocker]

Yeah, they broke a lot of ground and do not get credited for their impact early on.

Yep, I remember hearing the first album (Three Imaginary Boys) when it was released in 1979, and it was definitely a "Wow!" moment.

The title track from that album still sends shivers up my spine...it's like the soundtrack to a trip...

 

[hepular]

The Smiths are much closer to equal parts Marr/Joyce/O'Rourke/Morrissey than most folks want to admit. Neither Stephen nor Johnny have attained the same result since the band broke up. It is time for the public to see, Mike and Andy mattered a lot.

dunno:

best song of the 80s:

 

[beyer160]

The Cure had an international footprint that The Jam never had. They sold 30 million albums worldwide.

The McDonald's Argument is always the worst argument to make for anything- "they sold a lot, it MUST be good!"

The Velvet Underground sold a lot less records than Herman's Hermits, but which one turned out to be more influential?

Funny, that doesn't sound like 'my bad' or 'I see I was incorrect' or anything like that, at least not in English.

...because I wasn't. I get that it's convenient to ignore arguments that contradict your position, but there's really no need to post about it and illustrate the fact that you have no counter to my argument. I'll accept your acquiescence, though.

+1. I think there's a lot of the whole "two peoples seperated by a common language" going on here. If you're from the UK the Jam were legitimately a huge band, but if you are from the other side of the ocean that was never really true. If you're an American (or Canadian, etc.) it's more likely that you've heard the Cure than the Jam.

I don't think there's much to distinguish them in terms of influence. The Jam/Weller on the britpop side, the Cure on the shoegaze and goth side. I like Blur and Supergrass way more than I like any goth stuff, but the shoegazer stuff is near and dear to my heart. I'd say that's pretty much a wash. But there's not much in the way of overlap there, which helps explain the anomisity.

The real issue is, there's a very clear line from the Who, to the Jam, to Oasis and beyond. The Cure was just one band out of many peddling mope-rock in the '80s, several of whom were better at it and subsequently wound up being more influential. I really can't pin down anything that was directly influenced by the Cure. Except this, maybe-

And what is wrong with The Style Council? I know it isn't fashionable to like it - but that's too bad! :^) Oh, and btw, check out some of the Style Council album's portrait art - there's some androgyny there as well, so Paul may be overlooking some of his own past.

My issue with the Style Council isn't about his fashion sense (which was never as clownish as Robert Smith), it has to do with the fact that however genuinely felt or well-intentioned, bad Northern Soul is still bad Northern Soul. He tacked back to music that more suited his strengths in his solo career, to the mutual satisfaction of all involved.

 

[buster poser]

show me on the doll where Robert Smith hurt you

 

[backporchmusic]

Well, since we're just saying subjective stuff and pretending that 'wins the internet', the Jam are grossly overrated, only popular in the UK and can't hold a candle to the Cure. Oasis was a Beatles style band, not a Jam style band, no matter what Gallagher says.

With respect to influence--influencing a band in the UK is nothing compared to influencing bands around the globe. Worldwide success, like the Cure has, does that.

And the Jam fans are just loudmouths that will never be right, no matter how snarky and self-righteous they get.

 

[scottser]

View attachment 1050876

The McDonald's Argument is always the worst argument to make for anything- "they sold a lot, it MUST be good!"

The Velvet Underground sold a lot less records than Herman's Hermits, but which one turned out to be more influential?


...because I wasn't. I get that it's convenient to ignore arguments that contradict your position, but there's really no need to post about it and illustrate the fact that you have no counter to my argument. I'll accept your acquiescence, though.

The real issue is, there's a very clear line from the Who, to the Jam, to Oasis and beyond. The Cure was just one band out of many peddling mope-rock in the '80s, several of whom were better at it and subsequently wound up being more influential. I really can't pin down anything that was directly influenced by the Cure. Except this, maybe-




My issue with the Style Council isn't about his fashion sense (which was never as clownish as Robert Smith), it has to do with the fact that however genuinely felt or well-intentioned, bad Northern Soul is still bad Northern Soul. He tacked back to music that more suited his strengths in his solo career, to the mutual satisfaction of all involved.

The McDonald's Argument is always the worst argument to make for anything- "they sold a lot, it MUST be good!"


you're framing this incorrectly. the cure sold 30 million albums, around 10 times more than weller. the hypothesis i replied to stated that the jam were more influential than the cure and i presented one scenario where this is blatantly not applicable. i'm not dumb enough to get into a row with anyone about what music is 'good', or 'better' than another and i certainly won't be drawn on your lazy mcdonalds theory.

 

[421JAM]

I think the Jam are pretty good. I have a few of their records, but I rarely listen to them anymore because whenever I have in the past, I've always been struck by how I'm not hearing anything that I haven't heard done better by bands that came before them. That doesn't make their music bad. But it does make it irrelevant, uninspiring, and pointless to listen to. TO ME.

The Cure is a different story. A far wider ranging band than The Jam, far more interesting and creative. Their tendency towards the mopey end of things is off-putting, but when they kick the tempo up a bit they're as good as or better than any band of the era they came out of.

British music stars slagging each other off was a stale phenomenon decades ago, but I guess Weller hasn't been paying attention. At least Elton John and Rod Stewart are funny when they do this to each other.

 

[Spox]

The Jam were the second band I really got into and I have all of the albums and most of the singles on vinyl whereas with The Cure I only have maybe two albums and a Best Of boxset. Out of the two though I believe that The Cure were more in the moment at the end of the 1970s and beginning of the 1980s whilst The Jam were always looking backwards for influence be it The Who, The Kinks, Small Faces or Motown and Northern Soul and trying to make it contemporary via the lyrics.

 

[Mike Eskimo]

Now, go and check out a band called Pulp. Thank me later.

I know Cocker and Pulp. Good band.

View attachment 1050876

The McDonald's Argument is always the worst argument to make for anything- "they sold a lot, it MUST be good!"

The Velvet Underground sold a lot less records than Herman's Hermits, but which one turned out to be more influential?


...because I wasn't. I get that it's convenient to ignore arguments that contradict your position, but there's really no need to post about it and illustrate the fact that you have no counter to my argument. I'll accept your acquiescence, though.

The real issue is, there's a very clear line from the Who, to the Jam, to Oasis and beyond. The Cure was just one band out of many peddling mope-rock in the '80s, several of whom were better at it and subsequently wound up being more influential. I really can't pin down anything that was directly influenced by the Cure. Except this, maybe-




My issue with the Style Council isn't about his fashion sense (which was never as clownish as Robert Smith), it has to do with the fact that however genuinely felt or well-intentioned, bad Northern Soul is still bad Northern Soul. He tacked back to music that more suited his strengths in his solo career, to the mutual satisfaction of all involved.

The “influence” thing ?

The whole “only 1000 people bought the velvet underground record, but every single one of them formed a band?”

Music is as much about when you hear something, as it is what you are hearing.

The velvet underground get a pass from me because of how important Bowie says they were to him. He literally said No Velvetunderground / no David Bowie.

Fine . I love everything about David Bowie.

I’m glad he heard them when he heard them and they were so important to him, to influence him to make fantastic music.

By the time I myself, heard the velvet underground, they meant nothing to me.

Still don’t.

And having grown up in the shadows of Hitsville USA/the Motown house on grand Boulevard, I take massive offense at bands like the style Council.

If it was a spoof, a bit, tongue-in-cheek, maybe…but no.

An aberration in Wellers bag.

show me on the doll where Robert Smith hurt you

Yes !

Maybe it’s just wallet envy ?

Pre-and post-pandemic the cure have been touring their asses off.

Playing, for the most part, way bigger places than Weller could ever play.

 

[colchar]

Never heard of Paul Weller or The Jam before. I've heard of The Cure.

You've heard of The Cure but have never heard of "Town Called Malice"?

 

[colchar]

His comments may have backfired because now, I think less of him and more of Robert Smith.

So he's not allowed to dislike someone?

 

[colchar]

And having grown up in the shadows of Hitsville USA/the Motown house on grand Boulevard, I take massive offense at bands like the style Council.

Why would you be offended by Style Council? Is it because they are white musicians playing soul?

If so, then you must be offended by a hell of a lot of bands. Do the Righteous Brothers offend you? How about Bowie's Young Americans album? Seems kind of silly to be offended by them.

 

[cyclopean]

That's entertainment

A++

 

[cyclopean]

Why would you be offended by Style Council? Is it because they are white musicians playing soul?

If so, then you must be offended by a hell of a lot of bands. Do the Righteous Brothers offend you? How about Bowie's Young Americans album? Seems kind of silly to be offended by them.

I’m a little offended by the style council because it’s a big step down from the jam.

 

[421JAM]

You've heard of The Cure but have never heard of "Town Called Malice"?

Is this surprising?

One is a massively successful, genre defining band of 40+ years. The other is a minor, mostly forgotten song that briefly hit the charts.

 

[McGoldTopp]

I for one would not want Robocop pissed at me….

 

[buster poser]

So he's not allowed to dislike someone?

Sure he's allowed to dislike someone, anyone! He obviously dislikes Robert Smith (boy does he), and was obviously allowed to express that opinion. His opinion was so allowed it's reached thousands of us, in fact, and I'm reasonably sure he's not being sent to jail.

Additionally, others are allowed to express disagreement with his opinion (and mockery of his weird meangirl pathos). Where's my NME interview? Am I being silenced ohnoes.

 

[micpoc]

New Order were more influential than any of ’em.

(… ducks and runs for cover… )

 

[twangking]

The jam were fantastic. Not main stream so most of the public listening in to radio crap never heard them.

 

[buster poser]

New Order were more influential than any of ’em.

(… ducks and runs for cover… )

FACT