Paul Weller RIPS into the Cure front man Robert Smith

[cyclopean]

Am kinda shocked at the amount of older folks who never heard of The Jam.

On the other hand, the Jam are a great band at the narrow road they traveled on but , if you want to play Apples and oranges and fairly/unfairly compare them to a contemporary of theirs - they fall very flat.

The Clash.

Not at all in the same category talent-wise.

In terms of musical importance/wide ranging musical abilities etc.

I could see you comparing the jam to all the clash up to/right before London calling but after that - nah .

World-beaters .

I mean the jam is never mentioned as a way to figure out whether you are a boomer or a Gen X if you’re right on the edge of those generations.

But the short hand always for how to figure out if you are a late Boomer or early Gen X?

Just ask the question - Beatles or Clash ?

Easy litmus test.

It was never The Jam or Beatles ?

the jam never released anything as mediocre as the last few clash albums.

(I love the self titled and London calling. But these days I’d rather listen to the adverts or the Newtown neurotics.)

 

[cyclopean]

I mentioned The Clash upthread.

I think that past the musical differences (Clash embraced a far wider set of influences than The Jam, incorporating reggae and dub), The Clash always seemed to have their sights set higher than Weller - as I said earlier, they consciously wanted to conquer the States and did so by touring here more often and getting more into an international vibe. The Jam's stuff seemed to aim their songs more exclusively to a UK audience.

And I think The Clash's signing to a big US label had a lot to do with where they ended up. I don't think The Jam ever signed to an American label.

- D

There’s a reggae part in when you’re young.

 

[cyclopean]

I'd say The Jam are, or were, bigger in the UK than the Cure. The Cure seem to have a bigger following in the US but that was probably helped by MTV, which the Jam predated.

Did they? There are a bunch of pretty good mtv style videos by the jam.

 

[cyclopean]

I don’t know if one of the arguments for why the Jam was important is pointing out how vital they were influencing Britpop.

Blur ?

Love ‘em.

All the rest of them? There’s no way on God’s green earth you could get into them this far along down the line. Strictly a “you had to be there“ movement .

I’ve only just gotten into britpop in the past few years. At the time it was popular, I was listening to a lot of tradition ska, oi! And street punk and I thought all of the people who liked that stuff (or the locust, or electroclash) were fake mod and I kinda wrote it off. Calling your album “this is hardcore” was a turnoff when I was listening to a lot of actual hardcore.

One of my friends I’ve been hanging out with more in the past few years is super into britpop and shoegaze and i think I’m a little more open minded than i was in the late 90s/early 2ks. At the time i was winding up at mod nights with my friends and getting annoyed that there wasn’t more rocksteady, trad ska, skinhead reggae, 60s soul, and actual 60s mod rock. I think I’d have a better time at one of those nights now than i did then, but I also go goth clubbing a lot.

Anyone into ted Leo’s old band, chisel? They started off pop punk/indie rock and blossomed into a pretty great mod band by their last album.

 

[Dostradamas]

I don’t hear his style in post punk or goth at all.

Not a direct musical influence, more the influence of a prominent, melodic bass leading the song rather than being foundation alone.

 

[cyclopean]

If some young kid asked for suggestions because they wanted to listen to punk/post punk bands the Jam would not even be in the top 10 or 15 of what I would suggest for them, probably about 16 or 17 though.

I dunno. That first jam album rips and if i had to make a top five list of 77 style punk bands i can’t imagine it not making the cut.

 

[StrangerNY]

There’s a reggae part in when you’re young.

Yes, but compare that to...

Police and Thieves
Hammersmith Palais
Rudie Can't Fail
Wrong 'Em Boyo
Guns of Brixton
Bankrobber

I could go on, but you get the idea.

And I don't believe The Jam ever got anywhere near hip hop, which the later Clash jumped into with both feet.

- D

 

[Geoff738]

Funny, Wrong Em Boyo is playing as I read the above post.

Cheers,
Geoff

 

[Guitarteach]

Literally, the end of your knob. For the Americans and continental Europeans in the audience you mght want to refer to Roger's Profanisaurus for a more detailed treatment of English toilet humour:

Full text of "Roger's Profanisaurus Previously Known As Sweary Mary's Dictionary Of Filth"

archive.org

I’ve got a ‘hard’ copy.. fnaar, fnarr

Finbarr

 

[StrangerNY]

Funny, Wrong Em Boyo is playing as I read the above post.

Cheers,
Geoff

I meant to do that.

- D

 

[Geoff738]

El Clash combo. Weddings, parties, anything. Bongo jazz a speciality.

Cheers,
Geoff

 

[beyer160]

Good lord that was a long-winded misguided mess of ill-applied logic and a boring read, but you still haven't convinced anyone that Weller's not some sad little misguided man-baby.

It's always amusing to read haughty dismissals of an argument that assail "ill-applied logic", yet can't seem to put their money where their mouth is to actually pose any sort of counter argument. I mean, by what you say it should be easy for you, right? Your posts on this topic remind me of Shakespeare- "...full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

Kind of like the Cure, now that I think of it.

It's like watching someone try to punch a ghost.

Interesting analogy, in that I've never encountered a ghost that keeps responding to posts on the internet.

i can think of a dozen bands off the top of my head that cite the cure as a big influence, from coldplay to interpol, to my chemical romance, muse etc.

Oof... that list isn't the flex you think it is.

you and your mcdonalds theory can jog on, you're fooling nobody.

I don't need to fool anyone, it's pretty simple:

-I posted something.
-You continue to complain about it, without being able to refute the argument in any way.

I don't know what possesses people to continually point out that they have nothing backing up their loudly-voiced opinions, but by all means rock on with your bad self.

I’ve never heard anyone do an album that does disintegration better than the cure did, and Robert Smith is an enormously influential guitarist. I have a peavey musician on the way because of that album.

You are the only guitarist I've ever heard that rated Robert Smith at all, but fair enough.

I think it matters more if we knew if they were aware of each other or not. Outside of talking to primary sources, i don’t see how I’d figure that out.

Hook has said he developed his chordal style purely because it was the only way he could hear himself with the crap amp he had starting out. He certainly does more with it than the Cure ever did.

 

[scottser]

-I posted something.
-You continue to complain about it, without being able to refute the argument in any way.

I refuted your argument twice, but you didn't engage on any of the points I made. If you want wave your 'I hate The Cure' flag go ahead, but don't think you're engaging in an honest debate; you're just a snob.

 

[421JAM]

I hear it all the time when i go out. More than I hear Motown or Stax.

What types of places do you hear it? If you're hearing it in a small business run by a fan of the Jam, that's a bit different than hearing it in a national chain grocery store.

 

[421JAM]

You are the only guitarist I've ever heard that rated Robert Smith at all, but fair enough.

Does Guitar Player magazine count? They've rated him highly enough to give him the front cover twice.

 

[buster poser]

Did anyone win yet?

 

[swarfrat]

Punk rockers carefully curate their "I don't care what anyone thinks" attitude. Getting people to talk about them is part of the schtick.

 

[IMMusicRulz]

Jeez...what did Robert Smith do to make Paul Weller so pissed off?

 

[Kandinskyesque]

And I don't believe The Jam ever got anywhere near hip hop, which the later Clash jumped into with both feet.

The Jam never gave any wise cracks towards The Clash in any of their songs, either.

In "White Man", Strummer sings "They got Burton suits, hah, you think it's funny, turning rebellion into money".
He later changed his narrative that it was a line directed at power pop in general to that he pictured The Jam when he wrote it on account of their choice of menswear from said UK emporium.

Maybe that's why Weller has remained so spikey.

 

[Cloodie]

Did they? There are a bunch of pretty good mtv style videos by the jam.

Yep. Their best albums were released in the 70's and they split in 1982. MTV was launched in August 1981.