PA System To Attract Bands

Discussion in 'Band Wagon' started by Pineears, Apr 1, 2018.

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  1. creekrat

    creekrat TDPRI Member

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    My ideal setup would be a digital mixer, I like the Allen & heath qu series, with powered speakers and monitors and digital snakes. The digital snakes can eliminate a ton of noise from less than ideal rooms. A nice feature that could be added later could be an analog snake from somewhere on the stage back to the sound booth as well as a few pairs of cat5 or cat6. These would be for if a band wanted to use their own mixer. The analog snake can let them patch their board right next to the house board and just hand them a stereo pair or having the data cable for their digital snakes.
     
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  2. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Afflicted

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  3. creekrat

    creekrat TDPRI Member

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    That’s right in my old back yard. I was in Lafayette for several years up until July of 2017
     
  4. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity

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    That's near enough to a major music market that the venue should contract out to a qualified live sound provider to do a proper installation.
     
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  5. radiocaster

    radiocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    You don't need a PA, just get this guy a megaphone.
     
  6. kennl

    kennl Tele-Afflicted

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    Recently played a show where the house system included a digital board. Horn player patched his MacBook into the mixer via USB an we went home with a 24 bit recording of the set in ProTools.
     
  7. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Afflicted

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    That will be the high end choice in my recommendation. With the size, shape, objects in the venue, pro sound installation could improve the sound. I know they had sound issues with bass cancellation in areas, because a note on the sound booth wall “the bass is not as loud as it sounds”. The budget for the PA is not known at this time and it is an unknown percentage of the remodeling/startup costs.
     
  8. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Afflicted

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    I don’t have the exact width of the room but it’s width is somewhere near the length of a 50hz signal.
     
  9. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Afflicted

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    The stage is about 16’ wide by 12’ deep by 30” tall, hollow, open all across the front. Just for my own entertainment next time I get over there, I’m going to use it as a bass horn by sticking my subwoofer under there.
     
  10. Chicago Matt

    Chicago Matt Friend of Leo's

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    I need to move where you are. Where I live (with a few exceptions), when a new joint opens up it's inundated with bands that are dying to play there. Usually the owner chooses the ones that charge the very least regardless of quality. Then the audience stops coming and his business fails or he goes to a DJ.:)
     
  11. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Afflicted

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    Running a profitable pub is probably not as easy as playing in a band.
     
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  12. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Tele-Meister

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    I'd say you're going to want your own SE if for no other reason than you don't want all these guys who probably know not what they are doing messing with your board.

    I would say definitely a digital board. Probably 32 channels ( I guess depending on the size of your venue). Midas M32 or the Behringer version of the same console should do nicely. These boards are highly capable and will eliminate the need for gates, comps and FX.

    I hesitate to make a suggestion on speaker boxes without knowing the size of the venue, but I would set the lowest bar at something like a pair or quad of QSC K12.2s with a pair or quad of QSC KW181s. I would also get 4-5 powered boxes for stage wedges. Yamaha DXR series are affordable and will do the job nicely.


    A system like this will sound amazing and be pretty plug and play ( especially if it is permanently installed) as long as you have a guy manning the board who knows what he's doing.


    My PA rig is slightly higher end than that. I run Yamaha DSR12s over Yorkville LS801Ps. And I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this rig if I had an idea of what your budget is. I have run a pair of DSR12s over a pair of LS801Ps outdoors ( approximately 300 people) with a hard rock band and it sounded fantastic.

    Of course, again depending on your budget, there are much better systems out there. Everything I have mentioned is "Prosumer" grade stuff. If you got the budget it would be very smart to hire a sound company to come out and look at the space, recommend and install a pro grade system.
     
  13. jvin248

    jvin248 Poster Extraordinaire

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    .

    What would be the "iPhone of PA" designs?

    Easy to use for 'plug-n-play'? Ideally a band should be able to walk in, plug in their instruments, twist the master volume as needed during the night (more less bodies absorbing the noise), entertain, then unplug and go home. With all the concern about heavy guitars and amps, a gig where you show up with your guitar and pedal board only would seem somewhat more attractive than pushing in the 'Marshall stack' night after night with an hour of sound check before the gig starts.

    Existing gear seams like a cluster shoot and it's like trying to drive with one foot on the brake at the same time the other foot is on the gas for sixteen channels at a time. Or walking into an airplane cockpit of switches and dials. That is the root cause of the problems. How to sort it out?

    Most often the drummer sets the sound level, then the bass guitar and the lead guitar players fight over the volume knobs until the singer gets drowned out.

    If there are ten customers at the tables or booths the band will be way too loud and when there are two hundred packed in tight they can't hear the band. So the bar tender should get a master volume knob to tweak during the shift because they are often in position of a typical mixing engineer to hear the overall mix. Yes, this freaks a band out but it's necessary.

    How about a box like a foot high lectern with a row of Morley volume pedals lined up at the base or volume pots on knobs and a row of labeled jacks for 'drummer', 'lead guitar', 'bass guitar', 'singer', 'horn' and the band can float the input volumes (plus the guitars can use pedals and guitar knobs) that way for relative control. The system should just be clean amplification no added effects. Hire a really good mixing engineer to set up the PA baseline at the beginning few shows (when people are filling the bar) then you don't need them other than perhaps future once-a-year maintenance checks, not an on-going nightly expense.

    How do you make it so simple that an old-guy band can show up with minimal gear or a 'high school'-band that has never seen a big scary mixing board that comes in on open-mic-night can plug in and entertain a crowd for the evening with the minimum of futzing around? That is really the goal -- provide easy entertainment for the bar staff to sell food and drinks that pays for the band, venue, and people.

    .
     
  14. Floyd Eye

    Floyd Eye Tele-Meister

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    This cannot be done while simultaneously having quality sound. And quality sound is the main thing if the objective is to entice bands with the PA system. The bottom line is that ANY system is only as good as the guy mixing on it. If it was as easy as plug and play and sound great, tens of thousands of FOH and Monitor Engineers would be out of a career. The new digital mixers and powered speakers are much more user friendly than the old passive systems with amp racks and FX racks, but you still need to understand live sound fundamentals. System tuning, EQing, when and how to use gates and comps, what signals need to have HPFs and LPFs, mic placement and on and on.
     
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  15. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity

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    A Peavey powered mixer-head and a pair of column speakers.

    Anything more complex than that is going to need a paid person to operate it.
     
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  16. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity

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    This idea of letting bands just come in and help themselves to a complex sound system is a ridiculous fantasy that should be abandoned. After one band comes in and makes a dog's dinner of the sound, what is the next band going to come in and find?
     
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  17. Tele1966

    Tele1966 Friend of Leo's

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    Absolutely true post by @David Barnett.

    We play at one venue with a complete PA system ready to use without a sound man. I wouldn't touch that mixer and PA with a ten foot pole. It's impossible to expect as a band you can breeze into a venue, plug into a "ready to go" PA system and start playing. It will never happen in a million years.

    Based on the OP's question, it's totally impossible for a venue to provide a PA system that a band can just come in, plug in and play.

    It's totally and absolutely impossible.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
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  18. sax4blues

    sax4blues Friend of Leo's

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    Let me share what happens with the PA that we(the band) own and care for and share at gigs: cables go missing, mic's go missing, stands go missing, power cords go missing, knobs get broken, slider tips come off, mic's get dropped, cables get pulled to breaking point, settings get manipulated to the extremes.

    Now have some future vision of what that pa will be like without a controlling party and a nightly stream of strangers having free access.
     
  19. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Afflicted

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    I agree with a nice complicated digital mixer I need a sound person. With digital mixers can save the scene (all settings). I can have a generic ? piece band set up for the first time a band shows up as a starting point. Once they played I save the setup with their name on it. (also log the profit the house made that night)

    If no sound person then the PA will likely be very simple.
     
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  20. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity

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    Oh yeah I had a variety of scenes set up for various eventualities, up to a festival-style input list for those 5-band tour packages. I had some good places to start for those throw-and-go shows with no sound check too.
     
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