PA System To Attract Bands

Discussion in 'Band Wagon' started by Pineears, Apr 1, 2018.

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  1. ndcaster

    ndcaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    I don't know much about all this, but I do know that the $tate-of-the-art PA $y$tem in a local, recently-refurbished venue is run by a couple old rockers whose hearing has been shot since, I'll bet money, 1979.

    So music shows there still sound like crap.
     
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  2. GearHund

    GearHund Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    If you're "the guy" in the band who is responsible for sound, not having to haul all your PA stuff to a gig can be a definite plus - provided you know what you're not hauling your gear to... One PA gig I used to play had the exact same Mackie board that I was using and much better powered speakers and monitors. Man, just run your mics - bingo! Ready for sound check. End of night, pack up the mics, load guitar stuff - done in 15 minutes! I loved playing there. So did my back.
     
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  3. cattzap

    cattzap Tele-Meister

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    I've just watched a friends band close up shop. Besides personal issues (making a commitment and someone has to bail on them at the last moment among other things) the pa setup was something they had the biggest trouble with. Their number 1 problem was any time there was an issue, they would all go to turning every knob. They were careless about the setup, placing mics on floors in from of monitors, then it would go into a runaway scream, and they'd all run over and each turn as many knobs as they could get their hands on. I've been doing pa for a long time. My dad did it so I did it early on. I went on one gig with them to see about running their pa but I said no because they couldn't stop turning knobs randomly in a panic. They were always late getting started because of pa issues and it took them about half the night to finally get it going all the way.

    They desperately needed a good pa guy. There's no way they would have ever got a system going that they wern't familiar with.
     
  4. thegeezer

    thegeezer Tele-Afflicted

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    That goes well beyond needing a good sound guy - that goes to simply understanding the most basic fundamentals. Wow.
     
  5. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I can't believe it took that long for someone else to notice. Some really well-meaning folks here. Gullible, but well-meaning.
     
  6. cattzap

    cattzap Tele-Meister

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    "that goes to simply understanding the most basic fundamentals"


    Yea. I agree with that. They really have a nice system. It was the application of the system that got them.



    April Fool'----it is a good topic for discussion
     
  7. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    April Fools, indeed. But in all seriousness--

    Something pretty minimal and simple is the way to go. Include some kind of basic cheat sheet with photos of settings, how to turn things on, etc. I've been to a couple of venues where everything was rackmounted in a closet, and we couldn't even figure out how to get the power on or how everything was wired up. Ever been to someone's house and tried to figure out how to get their entertainment system working when they've got cable, maybe a Roku or AppleTV, all plugged into a smart TV and a big stereo system? And they have about five remotes sitting there? That has been my experience at some venues and no one in the joint knew how to work it or get stuff turned on.

    The other thing that would be worth investing in is some acoustic tiles or baffles, or even tapestries or drapes on the stage back wall and side walls. A boomy, echo-y stage makes it really hard to get a good stage and FOH mix.

    I've been tempted to get one of these-- Zoom Livetrak L-12-- it looks ideal for what the OP is asking, even for recording performances to boot. But I have some trepidations on the learning curve even though it is probably made as simple as possible. I suspect if someone showed up for a gig they would have real trouble getting all the settings right without some assistance, even though this console tries to be as simple and intuitive as possible. Maybe a short video walking someone through it that they could watch for ten minutes and some recommended starting settings would get them up the learning curve.

    https://zoom-na.com/products/production-recording/live-sound-recording/zoom-livetrak-l-12
     
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  8. PingGuo

    PingGuo Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    made my day you did...

    Glad I'm not the only fool in town.

    For anybody that's thinking about starting a business in seriousness I recommend starting here: https://torontolife.com/food/restaurant-ruined-life/
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
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  9. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Afflicted

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    I thank the well meaning members. I’m headed there tomorrow. Should have some pics in a few days.
     
  10. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Afflicted

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    The primaries in this business deal are involved in 3 venues within walking distance of this bar. One does bands often, one bands occasionally, and they occasionally do music outside on the street.
     
  11. PingGuo

    PingGuo Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    dbl post... forgot to add the quote.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  12. PingGuo

    PingGuo Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    Aww shucks. Now I feel bad for being a tool. Sorry for that.

    It sounds like you might have better luck asking the guys that work for your buddies.

    I think of all the threads I saw the best advice was something along the lines of "don't expect the bartender to explain it to the bands."

    Though, you might be able to find someone willing to split their title between soundperson/front of house server for an extra $1 an hour.

    Doing the recording thing like you meionted gets expensive fast if you want to to it right. But doing it wrong can be cheap (I just wouldn't pitch it as a "service" to the bands unless you really have it figured out).

    As for the gear... Loud and stupid proof are what I would look for.

    If the room is small and the budget low you could get by with a powered mixer: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EMX5014C--yamaha-emx5014c-14-channel-1000w-powered-mixer

    If your needs are more complex you might try calling a few live sound outfitters and get line item quotes for a "good, better, best" scenario.

    Best,
    -Vic
     
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  13. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Afflicted

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    This is something we discussed today. If we can line up and hire a person that has played in a band and/or has done sound, then we might go with a digital mixer and such. Downside is this person might get busy on non sound system stuff when the crowd gets big, but would be unbusy when the band was sound checking before the crowd. But with a digital mixer he could have an iPad for mixing with him anywhere.
     
  14. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Afflicted

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    THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP/OPINIONS/IDEAS/GUIDANCE. It has changed me from leaning toward no sound man to being for a sound man. My band hasn’t played anywhere in the last seven years that had a sound man, but that would be pleasant.
     
  15. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Afflicted

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    Good point, there will be a minor remodeling/painting. I should evaluate the stage acoustics.
     
  16. PingGuo

    PingGuo Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    (I'm not a lawyer)...

    Anything you buy should meet local fire/safety regulations.

    Art and wall decorations can act as diffusers to an extent. But anything that's purpose is absorption needs to be be fire rated.

    Blankets, eggcrate, or found foam are not suitable in a business setting.

    You don't want anything on the walls that burns easily and transmits flames to the ceiling...

     
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  17. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    I'm starting to think that the new Bose line array systems may work really well for smaller venues. Compact, light, good sound dispersion. Using a system like this I think it is much easier to get good mix and good sound from stage throughout the venue at the volume levels that people want nowadays. The only bummer is they are expensive. But they are very easy to use, and you don't need separate monitors and mains. An additional simple mixer would allow you to add more instruments although you can apparently get up to six things plugged in with this basic configuration:

    upload_2018-4-3_8-54-24.png
     
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  18. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Afflicted

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    I should see the venue size soon.
     
  19. Pineears

    Pineears Tele-Afflicted

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    Pics. I’m guessing capacity of 60 downstairs, 40 upstairs and 100 on patio. An acoustic band can play in the patio till 10pm. Stage is about 16 wide by 12 deep. The outside marquee had a duo on it 811E8056-412F-464B-B987-BD5AEF8D1EFF.jpeg 53039B34-A594-469A-884A-8965602A3D54.jpeg 1024446F-350E-4062-8DBE-4468B34C8D8E.jpeg 5890F33B-B87B-49CD-A5B8-F09AB4257A3B.jpeg
     
  20. kuvash

    kuvash Tele-Afflicted

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    One of the casinos in my area has a mgr. guy that will check volume and make bands turn it down.
    Small dance floor seldom if ever used and often they don't bother to turn off all the TV screens.
     
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