Oz Noy: "The main problem with teaching guitar today is YouTube. People try to take shortcuts."

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by wyclif, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. moonman2

    moonman2 Tele-Meister

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    That’s a good point and I’d agree. The problem however, is that not every individual mind is guaranteed to be suitable for your (or any other teachers) notion for how one should learn. Furthermore, a teacher can only achieve a notion of the best “step by step” way for a student to learn, once the teachers own “jigsaw puzzle” is at least also 90% complete .

    (There’s no guaranteed way of predicting a students “eureka” moment)
     
  2. Dean James

    Dean James Tele-Meister

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    Could you tell us where & how on YouTube to find & make use of this? Thanks.
     
  3. TheMindful

    TheMindful Tele-Meister

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    I agree with Oz but he is coming from a more old school mentality. He's talking about players who want to be serious, reach higher levels, etc. Not hobbyists or people who simply just want to strum some chords and relax, which is totally cool of course. The reality is there are no shortcuts to being at the top of your game, and YouTube may be helpful as a supplement, but oftentimes there is misinformation spread as well so it shouldn't be considered the go to for your curriculum.
     
  4. moonman2

    moonman2 Tele-Meister

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    322C3E8B-3730-42B1-8C58-3A7C5D05249D.png E1E008FA-476D-41C8-96A2-24BA5F690F3B.jpeg
     
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  5. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

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    My pleasure. :D

    gucci1.png gucci2.png gucci3.png
     
  6. Dean James

    Dean James Tele-Meister

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    Thanks again. I knew I'd seen that before, somehow couldn't find it this time.
     
  7. 3-Chord-Genius

    3-Chord-Genius Poster Extraordinaire

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    Pretty sure people like Clapton, Page, Slash, and a whole bunch of others took "shortcuts".

    And why not? What's wrong with shortcuts?
     
  8. Ignatius

    Ignatius Tele-Afflicted

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    Nothing wrong at all with shortcuts if it gets you to your desired end goal.

    I don’t mean this in a negative light because I’m a big fan of Page and Clapton (...I don’t get Slash), but their style of playing doesn’t require deep knowledge of theory to the extent that I think Oz Noy is speaking to in his video. And there’s nothing wrong with that. Clapton and Page and many others have made some absolutely great music with their comparatively limited knowledge of the instrument. It’s just my personal perspective I guess, but why would anyone want to reach a point of "just good enough" and stop learning? In my own case, my playing has always improved as I’ve learned more about what makes music work.
     
  9. Andy Summers

    Andy Summers Friend of Leo's

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    I love YouTube. It’s priceless in my eyes. I have learned how to fix things, home improvement, and yes, many guitar techniques and songs. Including other folks’ interesting covers of songs and maybe incorporating some of that in my own and band playing. And come on, was slowing down an album back in the day (before my time ;)) to learn a song considered a shortcut? Kind of a different scenario, I get it, but we use what’s at our disposal to learn..doesn’t matter where it comes from. Arguments can be made regarding technique, of course.

    However...There is nothing like sitting with a teacher, or just someone who is “better” than you and/or knows more than you. That will always be the best way to improve yourself...hands down.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  10. omahaaudio

    omahaaudio Friend of Leo's

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    I find him annoying. You, obviously, do not.
     
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  11. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire

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    With cats like EC, Page, Freddie King, whomever, etc. ... they put their entire life into it, jammed all day every day and played 4 hour gigs 6 nights a week. And they did this for 10 years (or more, solid) before anybody ever heard of them. That's not a short cut. It's a 'method'.

    Do you have to do it that way? Can everybody do it that way? Of course not.
    Do you just want to relax in front of the TV and play some tunes? Fantastic! No one here is saying that that's not cool. It's very cool. More music in more people's hands and hearts is a good thing.

    To take it back to the OP. Oz Noy and guys like him, me included, are not necessarily talking to you. It's just out there due to the ubiquity of the internet.

    But, do you want to go to a blues jam and not suck or play in a band and not suck? Then you need to put in some time and work. YT can be your friend or your enemy. Learn to identify the strunz.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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  12. 3-Chord-Genius

    3-Chord-Genius Poster Extraordinaire

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    I was referring to learning the fundamentals. I'm sure they all knew the fundamentals before playing the gigs you're referring to.
     
  13. Ignatius

    Ignatius Tele-Afflicted

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    Fair enough :D. I sure wouldn't want to try to learn from someone who annoys me...
     
  14. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire

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    You said they took shortcuts. No, they didn't. They worked their friggin' a$$es off. Copying records, going to gigs, asking other players for tips and just immersing themselves in it all day, everyday. They may have some holes in their overall knowledge or learning but 1) it doesn't affect what they do and 2) they know where they're lacking.
     
  15. Andy Summers

    Andy Summers Friend of Leo's

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    Hahaha!!! Last I knew, Scott was pulling his stuff off YT. I haven’t checked in a while though. He used to be (and still may be) a member here. I shared a video of his here years ago because he was criticizing the hell out of Teles..or a particular Tele, I dont remember, was a long time ago. I shared it because of how rudely opinionated of it he was and thought folks here would get a kick out of it. Well, Scott himself, called me out on it. Lol. He was very graceful about it actually, and if you’ve listened to him or read his YT comments, being graceful is not always his thing..haha. Had no clue he was a member here. He’s a character for sure, but I came to like the fellow. At least through our internet dealings. Don’t know him in person, but that seems to be the way the world is going these days..
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  16. slowpinky

    slowpinky Tele-Afflicted

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    Aspirations.
    What is a shortcut exactly?
    Its when you try and circumvent a particular route to get to a place you werent before.

    If that 'shortcut' still takes you to where you need to go on the way then maybe its not a shortcut at all.

    How do I know what I need next? ......If I took an actual shortcut to get where I am now - then I probably dont know...

    YT is a massive DIY phenomenon - and for many people ,music including a significant amount of commercially successful stuff has been DIY.

    Most of that stuff doesnt interest me.

    If I know Im taking a shortcut then I also know Im missing something.
     
  17. T Prior

    T Prior Poster Extraordinaire

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    YouTube is ok as a secondary method. but it has limitations.

    well heres my take, I always have a take. I don't believe in shortcuts or YouTube as the primary source, , they are secondary sources. Learning something from YouTube may very well teach us a "critical solo" or progression but did it teach us anything other than how to play the notes or chords ? . did it teach us where the notes ( phrases) came from ? probably not. Whats more important, learning the solo or learning why the solo or chord group works on the fret board.

    We all know and have heard countless local players who are pretty good, they can pull off songs and licks, they sound good. But how many of them can FIT in another environment other than the one they are currently in ? Do they actually know what they are doing ? more importantly, do they know WHY they are doing what they are doing .

    After playing for several decades and not really knowing WHY things work, the WHY factor is now primary. People and friends would say about me, man he can play, truth is thats all I could play. Put me in a different scenario and I would be stumbling. My dots were all over the place, not really connected.

    YouTube video's do not connect the dots unless you are savvy enough to be looking for them. Meaning, LOOKING at what the player is doing and observing what fret positions he or she is playing from. They may not even realize what it is they are showing, they may just be playing something they learned and passing it on.

    For me, I use YouTube videos for a few things, such as if I am interested in something Robben Ford or Don Felder is playing , I watch for the fretboard locations. Not necessarily the licks. Where are they taking it from ? Where are they starting and where are they ending. Then I connect the dots. What root pockets are they using .


    Peaceful Easy Feeling for example, do we all know that it plays across 4 / E Root positions ? Or are we just learning the solo ? Are we learning WHY that solo works or are we just playing it because someone in a video says, here's how it goes. Two different things as studying guitar players. Which ones more important ? The playing or the WHY ? For me its the why.

    Watching the players we admire can teach us a lot, if we are actually paying attention, even though they may only be showing how to play a few phrases.

    talking way above about Page, Clapton, Beck etc, who are lifetime players is irrelevant, they actually learned from each other. They hung out, shared solos and phrases they took off records. They talked to each other , showed each other their idea's We can't talk to a YOUTUBE video. When Page and Beck got together, it may not have seemed like it but they were giving each other a lesson, at the same time. They were studying each other.

    I say the YouTube video's, not all of them and I'll be kind to that end, some are really good if you are paying attention and some are really poor and will send you in the wrong direction which could take years to undo.

    I take personal YouTube lessons all the time from Don Felder ! He teaches me multiple fretboard positions which is exactly what I look for. He teaches me why the dots are connected. Which is why he makes it all look so easy ! Thx Don !
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
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  18. Flat6Driver

    Flat6Driver Friend of Leo's

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    I think it depends on the video. Some are just play throughs.....some go into every nuance in a long painful way...some are good for what you describe. Like any in person teacher it depends on what you click with. Some guys like so and so's videos....but maybe I don't click with that person and I don't need my 500th example of what notes are in an A chord. ;)
     
  19. thebowl

    thebowl Tele-Meister

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    I reject the notion that there's a right and a wrong way to improve as a musician, except insofar as what does or doesn't work for a given person.
    I reject the notion that there is any useful demarcation that can be made between learning for enjoyment versus learning to become a professional.
    It seems to me that there is no destination that can be reached when it comes to music, only a journey.

    Was it Duke Ellington who said that there are only two kinds of music?
     
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