Oxford Speakers

Discussion in 'Amp Tech Center' started by Cain61, Mar 11, 2016.

  1. Cain61

    Cain61 TDPRI Member

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    Sorry I'm starting a lot of threads, but I just got hooked on amps and how they work. My 1970 Fender Princeton non-reverb is supposed to have an Oxford speaker. I was looking at mine, and it just says "Made in Mexico." Were Oxfords made in Mexico, or is it some kind of replacement speaker? It's ceramic by the way.

    Thanks, Cain
     
  2. grolan1

    grolan1 Friend of Leo's

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    Do you have pics of the speaker? How about the codes on the speaker? I myself am not a fan of Oxford speakers, as some all them Oxfarts. Would much rather have an older Utah/CTS/Jensen than an Oxford. And I do not believe they were ever made in Mexico, so guessing it's newer replacement speaker. Utah codes begin with 328......
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
  3. elpico

    elpico Tele-Holic

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    I have the impression that bad rep came from the later ones, like 1970 era maybe? The earlier alnico ones I've heard are quite nice, they're very similar to Jensens of the same era. I only own one, sorry I don't know oxford model numbers, but it's a little 15watt 12" alnico with the old ribbed, curved seam cone and a felt dust cap. It sounds great with little 6v6 amps. It's light as feather too, I really should make a little combo with it. It's paired with a straight cone jensen in a 2x12 right now.
     
  4. Cain61

    Cain61 TDPRI Member

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    The speaker is still in the cabinet. It's plain and black - all of it. Here are the numbers:

    985-041612-001 137-8038
     
  5. grolan1

    grolan1 Friend of Leo's

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    That looks to be a CTS speaker (which I like) possibly made in 1968 or 1978, but guessing 1978. Also guessing it's not Alnico. I found online that CTS moved to Mexico around 1978 so that really confirms 1978, which would mean this is not the original speaker.
     
  6. OlRedNeckHippy

    OlRedNeckHippy Friend of Leo's

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    Cain61 - About a year ago we had a speaker ID thread going (that I hi-jacked) where Wally helped identify the speaker in my 66 Princeton Reverb. It turned out to be an Oxford. I think it sounds great! It's my main giging amp.
    Check the thread out here:
    http://www.tdpri.com/threads/what-are-these-speakers.551874/#post-6333469
    You might find some useful info in there.
     
  7. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    Fender substituted Oxfords and CTS in same year sometimes...
     
  8. Cain61

    Cain61 TDPRI Member

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    I'll try to do a more thorough study of the speaker over the weekend. I always hear great things about the CTS, even the ceramics, like this one, and this amp sounds stellar. I'm still curious to hear how an alnico speaker will sound in this, though.
     
  9. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Cain, that speaker EIA code....137 8038 is a CTS speaker built in the 38th week of 1980. It is not original to a 1970 Fender amp. I have never seen a 'Made in Mexico' CTS. Bob Gault left CTS in 1966 and formed Eminence speakers. CTS manufactured speakers in the U.S. through part of the '70's. Your Made in Mexico CTS is the first I have seen or heard of 'MIM' CTS speakers.

    Oxfords....prior to 1966 Oxfords were on a par with Jensen. IN 1966 due to speaker failures in the big Fender amps, Oxford increased the voice coil gap in the 12" speakers. This lowered the efficiency of the speakers and made them less likely to fail. The decreased efficiency led to the 'Oxfarts' nickname, which I find to be less than informative and not applicable in most cases IF one understands what is going on. The low efficiency Oxfords actually can have good application in a higher powered map like the TR IF a person wants to be able to push the amp. I did a '76 TR this way, and the amp was fantastic....great sonics and you could turn it up without blowing the walls down. The amp could delve into some natural overdrive without causing pain, right? The pro who bought that TR had played through 22 TR's over 3 states looking for something that he liked. AFter he had decided that the sonics...rich, firm low end, sparkle on the top, and musical mids....with good OD with the amp turned up... of the amp would do what he liked, he asked me what speakers were in the amp. He and all of the players that were with him went wide-eyed when I told them that the speakers Oxfords. !!!

    The 10" Oxfords were not changed...they remained the same throughout the period of manufacturing by Oxford...the can be some very good sounding speakers.
    Ime, preconceptions can ruin the reality of an experience. IN other words, thoughts can clog the ear canals in some situations. (;^) there is not reason to 'play logos' without truly using the ears. I see people doing it all of the time...some speakers and some amps sell in a heartbeat, and it matters not what sound waves they produce.
     
    Bobchill, Geo, elpico and 2 others like this.
  10. E5RSY

    E5RSY Doctor of Teleocity

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    Wow, that explains a lot. I've always wondered if I was crazy for liking the stock Oxfords in my old Super Reverb due to the typical bad press Oxfords get. Thanks for the sanity check.

    Scott
     
  11. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    E5RSY, a fellow member...Cool Blue Glow, IIRC but don't hold me to it....did a tear down of a 1965 10" Oxford and a 1970's 10" Oxford. They were identical speakers...including the voice coil gap. That supports my experience with newer Oxfords..post-'66. They sound good to my ear with no decrease in efficiency from the early Oxford 10's. I had a '76 Vibrolux Reverb with OEM Oxfords and it was a great amp.
     
  12. E5RSY

    E5RSY Doctor of Teleocity

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    Sounds about right. My Super Reverb is a '75. Thanks, again.

    Scott
     
  13. Ringo

    Ringo Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    My buddy has some 10" Oxfords in his drip edge Vibrolux Reverb, one was bad so he had them both reconed by a very reputable local guy, who LOVES Oxford speakers.
    All I can say is his amp sounds great. I have owned later 70s SF Fender amps with the 12" Oxfords, they could get farty sounding but so can most speakers in vintage Fender amps when they are played loud unless you turn the bass down, which I didn't know for a long time.
    Oxfords get a bad rap, but like Wally said, listed with your ears and my advice is to use your tone controls on the amp.

    As far as the OP goes, can you post some pics of the speaker? I've also never heard of a MIM CTS speaker. I just sold some 78 Eminence square ceramic magnet 10's that looked a LOT like the CTS square ceramic magnet 10s.
     
  14. Cain61

    Cain61 TDPRI Member

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    Here you go: SPEAKER1.JPG SPEAKER2.JPG SPEAKER2.JPG
     
  15. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

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    Some Oxfords are great - My '67 BFDR has an original 12K5-6 that blows away every other speaker I've tried in it. Yet I've had other Oxfords that sounded like they had a blanket over them (however, this particular model has been consistently good).

    I wouldn't just dismiss Oxfords - really depends on the model, the amp, and a bit of luck. Same with CTS - some are pretty lame, but their early-70's ceramic 12's will jump an amp off the floor! And CTS now is, for those who don't know, Eminence.
     
  16. Cain61

    Cain61 TDPRI Member

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    Yeah, I don't have any complaints with the speaker. it sounds great, and from what I've read so far, it's been identified as a CTS.

    Steve
     
  17. Ringo

    Ringo Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Interesting, I've never seen a MIM CTS speaker, maybe some more info will come out, CTS quit making speakers sometime in the 80s I think, maybe they outsourced to Mexico for a while.
     
  18. Mezzamort

    Mezzamort TDPRI Member

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    I have a 69 drip edge DR with a Oxford that I had reconed by Vin-Tone and I love it also I will not replace it again !!!
     
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