Overwound vs Underwound , or just Right for my needs . What is the best ?

[mkster]

Being in a unique opportunity of demonstrating both in the same guitar i tough i should share . I hope you enjoy the playing .

First i noticed that on a single note there not much of a difference , however playing rhythm its more obvious .Overwound dose drive the amp harder producing more overdrive , there is some clean headroom lost there . Underwound helps clear thing up a bit especially the background rhythm .

I personally prefer having more control at the guitar because you cant add clean otherwise . Also a one pickup guitar is more fun and versatile , i don't use any stomp box because the guitar has its own boost .



What is the best ?

best regards

Marc

 

[chris m.]

It was interesting to hear all three wind options and the changes were fairly typical. I also like to control from the guitar as much as possible.
A few alternative approaches to consider:

1) Changing the amount of attack with the right hand can really change the total output and hence result in a cleaner/treblier or dirtier/midrangier sound.

2) Just dropping back on the volume knob can also change attack. Some people like a treble bleed circuit, some don't. If you don't want it to get darker
as you turn it down then a treble bleed (or FezzParka/50s mod) is worth a try.

3) If you had a guitar that was a little too overwound/muddy/dirty, it should be quite possible to put something like a GE-7 pedal and lower overall
amplitude as well as adjust the EQ curve a bit. I wouldn't at all be surprised if you could take your most overwound sound and with careful use of the
GE-7 you could thin it out to where it drives the amp and sounds as close as the human ear can detect to the most underwound coil tap option.

In other words, it is possible to thin out/weaken a hot/thick pickup, just as it is possible to boost/thicken a thin pickup. Hence the idea that you can't
"add clean" may not be totally true. What matters to the amp is the signal that it sees from the signal chain going into it. There are lots of ways to modify
that signal to make it thicker or thinner before it hits the amp.

One big epiphany for me is that of course different guitars sound different when you plug them into your rig. But that's before you make any adjustments.
With the right adjustments it is possible to make a Strat sound pretty beefy or a Les Paul to sound fairly thin. It might not be as easy as just changing guitars,
nor as ideal, but there's a lot of latitude for adjustment-- you're not completely stuck with the original sound coming out of the guitar. But of course, if I'm in the
studio or on stage I'm going to select the guitar that has the tone I want for most of my material, and then probably make EQ and other adjustments here and there
to try and make it produce other acceptable sounds on the other songs. Some guys constantly change guitars in one gig but I usually try to do the best I can with one.

 

[3-Chord-Genius]

The only times I've ever gone with overwound pickups was because my amps was a pretty bright-sounding Top Boost Vox, and my guitars were a strat and a telecaster - both bridge pickups through that amp were like an ice pick to the skull. In both guitars, the overwound pickups (GFS, by the way) solved the problem and still retained the tone of the guitars. And because the bridge pickups are now louder, I flip to the bridge for a boost, and use the other pickups for cleaner stuff. I don't even have to stomp on a boost pedal.

 

[mkster]

I like to extend the range of what i can get by also using a 1 meg volume pot preventing more highs from going to ground . Using a 250k as this is a single coil would make the guitar much darker and bassy.

Best regards

Marc

 

[Antigua Tele]

I like to extend the range of what i can get by also using a 1 meg volume pot preventing more highs from going to ground .

Technically the higher value pot increases the resonant Q factor. The distinction is that the higher value of pot doesn't reveal all treble frequencies, it punches up a particular narrow band. That's why it tends to sound shrill instead of clear. With humbuckers, the steel parts cause a lot of resonant damping, so the Q factor is already very low, which is why 500k pots are preferred. With Fender pickups, the lack of steel parts makes the Q factor high, so 250k pots are used to bring the Q factor down a bit.

 

[swany]

Marc, I think both sounded good, slightly preferred the under-wound, however I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed your playing. that was old school excellent.

 

[Piggy Stu]

I never really like 'better' because it is so subjective, but I can tell you I love overwound

Something intense and mad about an overwound - that is the music inside me that I need to release

 

[mkster]

Marc, I think both sounded good, slightly preferred the under-wound, however I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed your playing. that was old school excellent.

I like them all but its it almost always on underwound , since i really like to play rhythm and lead at the same time , i find it easier to hear all the nuances of the rhythm , on the overwound it distort at almost any volume settings past 3.5 , so i tend to play louder to keep it audible .

Thanks , for your appreciation its very kind of you , i am still trying to get somewhere i am almost there ... Ideally i would not make errors , i am to reproduce what i hear i never really know what will happen , but i know that when i start moving to the beat i am ON ,lol.

I agree its old style , i try to incorporate what i learned from RJ , how could i explain ...

Its like the British blues explosion , American response . Meaning Brits took the old open string songs then changed them to standard tuning , bringing in a new attitude but also loosing some of the grit .
So play Open string and love to simulate playing standard , so its the opposite ideology . Its great because i love playing guitar again , there is no book to teach that so i create it as a go .

Best regards

Marc

 

[mkster]

Technically the higher value pot increases the resonant Q factor. The distinction is that the higher value of pot doesn't reveal all treble frequencies, it punches up a particular narrow band. That's why it tends to sound shrill instead of clear. With humbuckers, the steel parts cause a lot of resonant damping, so the Q factor is already very low, which is why 500k pots are preferred. With Fender pickups, the lack of steel parts makes the Q factor high, so 250k pots are used to bring the Q factor down a bit.

I like your explanation , mine is maybe oversimplified , ideally the pickup directly connected to the amp is the way to keep everything , the value of the pot doesn't add anything but because of the resistor is also a filter and a pot is a resistor some high freq leaks to ground and no longer audible if there is nothing at that range . The pickup i use is very hot for a single coil a 250k would cut the highs in the signal plus Valco used a 1m volume pots on them back then.

On a strat the 250k helps smoothing out the highs , but also i think the 125k actually from ground to hot , because the tone and volume are in parallel .

I think i have i idea , i am doing some wiring tonight , i will rewire my strat to have 1m , 500k , 250 and direct and make a video ! This should be interesting . I could do 3 pots , but i think i will use resistor .

Best regards

Marc

 

[Antigua Tele]

I like your explanation , mine is maybe oversimplified , ideally the pickup directly connected to the amp is the way to keep everything , the value of the pot doesn't add anything but because of the resistor is also a filter and a pot is a resistor some high freq leaks to ground and no longer audible if there is nothing at that range . The pickup i use is very hot for a single coil a 250k would cut the highs in the signal plus Valco used a 1m volume pots on them back then.

On a strat the 250k helps smoothing out the highs , but also i think the 125k actually from ground to hot , because the tone and volume are in parallel .

I think i have i idea , i am doing some wiring tonight , i will rewire my strat to have 1m , 500k , 250 and direct and make a video ! This should be interesting . I could do 3 pots , but i think i will use resistor .

Best regards

Marc

That's a misconception. The resistor doesn't cause highs to leak to ground. The capacitance of the guitar cable and the pickup do that. The parallel resistance of the pot puts a load on the pickup, which reduces resonance. The 250k literally smooths out the highs, not by dumping highs to ground, but by reducing the amplitude of the resonant peak, or more technically stated, reducing the impedance at resonance.

Referring to this illustration:

the 250k pot lowers Q, making the treble response "flatter". You would move this "hill" left or right by increasing/decreasing the capacitance or inductance values. A lower capacitance guitar cable, for example, would shift the whole thing to the right, or in keeping with the topic of the thread, over or under winding would change the inductance (and the capacitance slightly), so overwinding a pickup moves the resonant frequency to the left (lowering it) while underwinding the pickup moves the frequency to the right (increasing it).

I'm only going out my way here because it is a very common misconception that spreads by seeing the misconception repeated again and again.

 

[mkster]

Thanks for the clarification , in a regular circuit i still think it is but the pickup is indeed a inductor ...

Great !

Best regards

Marc

 

[mkster]

Hi Guys i made a second video demo of overwound vs underwound , it better shows the variations , enjoy !

Marc

 

[mkster]

I was wandering if the video was to long ? so is it ?

 

[Hoodster]

Check my tag line!

 

[Zepfan]

Both overwound and underwound have their own attributes, but the best way to take advantage of those attributes are going to be your amp, choice of guitar controls/electronics and pickup heights.

 

[mkster]

Both overwound and underwound have their own attributes, but the best way to take advantage of those attributes are going to be your amp, choice of guitar controls/electronics and pickup heights.

I was thinking of having a second pickup in series on a second switch . With a Fender type pickup in the neck position it would give me 6 positions , 3 single coil and 3 humbucker tone.

Marc

 

[Zepfan]

I just wired a Strat guard.
3 single coils
1 volume 1 tone for neck & middle 500k/.022
1volume only middle 500k
3 on/off/on DPDT switches for series/parallel options

I really like the series option on Strat type singles, they tend to be brighter toned to me than a typical HB. Almost reminds me of a WRHB tone. It helps having coils that aren't equal in output too.

 

[SlappyDuck]

That was very interesting- and fantastic playing. Thank you.

 

[mkster]

I just wired a Strat guard.
3 single coils
1 volume 1 tone for neck & middle 500k/.022
1volume only middle 500k
3 on/off/on DPDT switches for series/parallel options

I really like the series option on Strat type singles, they tend to be brighter toned to me than a typical HB. Almost reminds me of a WRHB tone. It helps having coils that aren't equal in output too.

I had good success with changing the middle reverse wound pickup to the bridge position , and used neck&bridge and mid&bridge in series. But when you connect two totally different pickups together in series especially the further they are apart you get the property of both pickups and its loud and meaty ...

Marc

 

[aerhed]

Sorta like the Phil Specter wall of sound vs the Orianthe wall of mud.