Overrated Books?

[teletail]

My personal experience has been that those who liberally toss that label/insult at others are those whom the label best fits...

Eggzactly. People assume that other people do the same things they do. You can tell what they do based on what they accuse you of doing. I also notice that they are the least informed and most easily led. My brother was complaining about a politician and I said, "Well what specifically have they done that you don't like?" He couldn't name a single thing. Same thing when he was complaining about a politician being a liar. I said, "What lie did he tell?" He couldn't name one. I have no problem with people having opposing views, but if you are going to make an accusation, be able to back it up.

 

[BigDaddyLH]

Heh, Gravity’s Rainbow is a tough one. I found that about halfway through it either got easier (and goofier) or maybe I just began to think the way he writes. Fun but not necessary.

I liked Gravity’s Rainbow. What I think is funny about the book is that the main character, Tyrone Slothrop, disappears about a hundred pages before the end of the book!

I once was on a forum with the user name "DrLaszloJamf" and the signature line, "From the Imipolex-G keyboard of ..."

Later I found out that Pynchon got Jamf from a description Charlie Parker tossed around "jazz a** ..." you can guess the rest.

 

[Recce]

I'm going to respectfully disagree. I read the New York Times, Washington Post AND The Wall Street Journal and Barons in addition to other articles from other sources that catch my attention. Not every article, every day, but a variety. You choose to live in an echo chamber, you can get both sides of an issue if you want to.

I do the same thing. I really dislike a totally one sided world.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I had a friend who not only wouldn’t watch any movies or TV shows that didn’t agree with his politics, but wouldn’t watch any movies or TV shows with an actor who disagreed with his politics. And he called everyone else a snowflake.

And he's poorer for it, right?

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I liked Gravity’s Rainbow. What I think is funny about the book is that the main character, Tyrone Slothrop, disappears about a hundred pages before the end of the book!

I once was on a forum with the user name "DrLaszloJamf" and the signature line, "From the Imipolex-G keyboard of ..."

Later I found out that Pynchon got Jamf from a description Charlie Parker tossed around "jazz a** ..." you can guess the rest.

And Pirate Prentice disappears in the first hundred.

I've read and loved all of Pynchon's novels - even (especially?) when I don't know where I've been, how I got there, or why. What a mind.

PS -

Good to know about jamf. Thanks!

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Heh, Gravity’s Rainbow is a tough one. I found that about halfway through it either got easier (and goofier) or maybe I just began to think the way he writes. Fun but not necessary.

See post 325.

Pynchon is for people who like folks like Zappa and Captain Beefheart and Laura Nyro and Miles Davis and the Dead. Twisted.

 

[Fiesta Red]

Ladies and Gentlemen (or Dudes and Dudettes, for those of us who don’t like to be addressed in polite honorifics)—

Please don’t get this thread shut down for political discussion—I understand some literature is political in nature, and some of that literature (politics aside) is poorly written (I agree about “Atlas Shrugged”—a weak, sophomoric narrative about a political philosophy), but this was more of a discussion in what literature that is highly acclaimed or has notoriety, but fell flat with *you* personally.

I know I started the ball rolling with a book many people like—for whatever reason—and it’s ok if people disagree with me…but whether the piece is high-brow, low-brow or in-between, “overrated” is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[notmyusualuserid]

I think the Silmarillion was intended for use as a reference for Tolkien, and was published posthumously in an attempt to cash in on the popularity of the series. It certainly reads like a reference book. I've tried to read it multiple times and never finish.
I'm not sure it qualifies as overrated though, as I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say it's even a good book, let alone great.

It was, and it was a cash cow for Christopher Tolkien. It's not meant to be a novel, what it is is the collected notes and timelines that Tolkien used to flesh out Middle Earth's history.

 

[notmyusualuserid]

i reserve a special mention for 'the articles of thomas covenant' by stephen r donaldson. 12 books. 12 long, turgid books. and at the end he steals the conclusion from the matrix.
if i ever meet him in person, he's getting a wedgie.

I bought the first three when they were first published in the late 70s. I got about a hundred pages into the first one before deciding life was far too short...

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

Exactly. The problem with discussing Rand's terrible writing is that her fans interpret any criticism of her writing as an attack on her philosophy. There are plenty of writers whose views I find appalling but whose writing I can appreciate -- H.P Lovecraft and Louis-Ferdinand Celine for example.

'Zackly. Celine: What's not to like?

Kinky Friedman, for that matter!

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

I seem to not finish more books than I used to -- in fact, I used to almost always finished reading books. One thing I've noticed is that I'm more likely not to finish a book written by a female author. Don't jump to the conclusion I'm being sexist -- that might be the case if I read fewer books written by women. I don't know why -- they just don't hold my interest as well.

If you like fiction, try The Goldfinch by Donna Tart.

If you like nonfiction, try These Truths by Jill Lapore.

 

[notmyusualuserid]

You have to be selective with Shakespeare, I think - Hamlet is pretty much unbeatable, and Midsummer Night's Dream is pretty funny (both IMO). On the other hand, I was never able to get past the second scene in Troilus and Cressida. And he did invent the sitcom, after all (Merry Wives of Windsor).

D.H.

They were never meant to be read as novels, they're scripts for plays. They contain stage directions and cast lists, which must be a clue.

Hamlet is rarely staged in full. It runs to about five hours

I suggest Bryson as a corrective.

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

When that book was written we didn't have no tropes; isn't that an internet thing?

Trope? Nope. It's been around for as long as there's been fiction.

The internet has just devalued it. Now it rides alongside awesome, iconic, epic, awesome, perfect, literally, and other words that used to mean something.

 

[BigDaddyLH]

If you like fiction, try The Goldfinch by Donna Tart[t].

If you like nonfiction, try These Truths by Jill Lapore.

I started The Goldfinch, but didn't finish it either

 

[middy]

Burroughs, Faulkner, Melville, Joyce, Tolstoy, Dickens, Nietzsche, Conrad, Lee, Hemingway, Salinger, Faulkner, even George Orwell? Hmmm...

Ayn Rand…well, I'm onboard with that. As buster poser said above “The absolute definition of a dumb person's idea of a smart person.” <ahem>

I know some folks read for diversion and fun. That’s fine. Overrated is different from didn’t like. Literature is often more than a diversion. There’s no shortage of diversionary books created only for entertainment purposes to consume, but there are only so many exemplary works to experience and contemplate.

I agree with several others above. I couldn’t get through Wheel of Time. The show failed to engage me as well. I found the characters unlikeable and the plot tired. The behavior of the characters was also often random and annoying. It felt like excessive descriptions and slow plot were there to pad the word count as opposed to serving the story.

I think the WOT series is important to people of a certain age and development who had little experience reading quality fiction before reading it.

Also, am I obligated to use the word turgid?

QFT. WOT didn’t start the whole genre, I think it was David Eddings. It’s cynical nerd fan service, ka-ching, keep those royalty checks comin in, Pop.

 

[middy]

If I sat next to that guy on an airplane I'd act stupid.

Meh. He looks like he smells nice. Just don’t say anything.

 

[THX1123]

Don't do that, he'll think you're a fan!

Good point. On second blush I think I would say the same thing to him that I say to my more selfish and misled acquaintances:

"Hmm! Tell me more."

 

[THX1123]

QFT. WOT didn’t start the whole genre, I think it was David Eddings. It’s cynical nerd fan service, ka-ching, keep those royalty checks comin in, Pop.

What's interesting is that I am reading Malazan, which seems to be un-enjoyable by those who like WOT and other more YA-ish 21st century fantasy. They also don't seem to like Abercrombie either.

 

[THX1123]

One of my favorite things to do in a slow moment is read negative reviews of books widely considered to be jems of literature on Goodreads.

I sometimes find hack criticism reveals more about the reviewer than the work being reviewed.

 

[aging_rocker]

Turgid.