Over the Katana

[loopfinding]

I’m hopeless with tech. What type of cable/connector gets one straight from the Iridium to stereo monitors? And are yours powered or unpowered?

I’ve thought about this solution a lot. It’s just so hard to get even the THRs, Microcubes and Katana 100 head (internal speaker) down into the 70-75 dB range. I actually think all 3 are excellent home solutions and better than anything else I’ve tried. But even they are still hard to tame to real world apartment levels.

my computer is connected to my audio interface and then the interface to my powered monitors, they're always on. i live in a small apartment so my "studio" is at a desk at the far side of my living room. my monitors are my PC speakers when i'm just browsing or doing whatever.

the iridium is on my pedalboard, and i just go into the interface (and use the live monitoring input so there's no latency). but i have also done it in the past where i just plug a quarter inch from my iridium into a single monitor. i can sit at my desk or on my couch.

And can the Iridium do bright, cutting, open and lively at those volumes? Some modelers do great at gained up, darker, compressed sound but can’t really capture anything like a wild, bright, dynamic Plexi or early JCM800 for instance.

well i mean, nothing can do a ridden amp sound at 70-75db range, it's just a perceptual thing. so the iridium for me is the closest thing at something that would be home listening levels (like listening to a record at my preferred volume).

the problem with most modelers is that they expect a clean signal, and you have to figure out gain staging inside and outside the device to simulate clean to dirty. whereas with the iridium you can just ride it hard with whatever, because the model compensates for the JFET input stage clipping. all of your boosts and drive pedals more or less work the same way as with your amp (though you can't push it as extreme as a real amp).

 

[MilwMark]

I think a bunch of factors are in play here:

1. What volumes do you need to hit?
2. Do you know what sounds you actually want?
3. More importantly, do you know what feel/dynamics/responsiveness you actually want?

I didn’t know 2 and 3 for a long time. Once I did it became pretty easy honestly.

4. Expectations. The explosion of non-stage playing is awesome. So is the explosion of internet. But both seem to have created some askew expectations, to @loopfinding’s point just above.
- physics are physics. Much as folks claim otherwise, you can’t get a normal 10-12” guitar speaker to sound great at 65-75 dB. They are all 90-100 dB sensitivity. Which means at a mere 1w of power they are delivering 90-100 dB. Motorcycle level.
- even if you can coax a sound out at 80-85 dB, the speaker is not pushing normal frequency range IME.
- listen to iso guitar tracks from your faves. They do not sound godly. They are flat or way too bright and thin or too middy. But they sound great in the mix. There’s the rub. At home we are trying to replicate something that doesn’t exist.
- a speaker pushing air and a room full of other instruments are part of the magic. They are missing at home at quiet volumes

5. Psychology. Option paralysis. And overthinking. With a (pick your favorite forum approved vintage amplifier) we don’t overthink it. They all have flaws. But we accept them. With modelers or other non-reference titans, we sit around and nitpick those things and doubt ourselves. And then get into a/b/c’ing to infinity and frustration.

So for me all got better when I accepted all of this. Tiny speakers optimized for 65-75 dB do work better at home. Modelers that can deliver fractional watts do better as well.

The best devices to replicate live FEEL and sound at home that I’ve found are two.
1. For headphones. Waza headphone amp. Superb. Sound and feel. No reservations.
2. Katana 100 head through internal (tiny speaker). The MicroCube and THR are also great but the Katana more easily captures the bright, dynamic thing I want at slightly lower volumes than the Cube or THR. I let the Katana be what it is. I’ve never once dived into menus nor a computer program.

But because even it is hard to get to70 dB without losing some magic, I’m intrigued by @loopfinding’s Iridium solution. Mostly because I suspect smaller studio monitors can more easily maintain their full sound at 70 dB. Though they’ll sound better at 90 …

 

[Brent Hutto]

I'm afraid my personal experience is very different. A little knob twiddling and the 12" speakers in my stereo pair of Katanas sound really good to me at my normal living room volumes. My SPL's average in high 60's with momentary peaks to 75dB, maybe 80dB once in a blue moon. I'm not saying there aren't great sounding "optimized" speakers less than half that size but I've never heard one myself (then again I'm probably not shopping in the price ranges you're talking about).

Now for all I know, when I turn the Katana's down to 0.5W and set the Master Volume around noon there's some internal magic algorithm that fools my ears into thinking they're hearing pleasing, legitimate guitar tone at 68-75dBA. Can't say I really care how it works but it works.

One caution comes to mind. It may well be that you like the sound through headphones better than listening to a guitar amp at 70dBA because you're playing the music 10-12dB louder than you think you are through the headphones. Been there, done that. It's not easy to measure or estimate SPL's inside headphones.

Glad you've found some gear you can afford that sounds and "feels" like you want. I can't imagine ever giving up my Katanas plus a pile of cash so I can listen to my playing through a 3.5" speaker or whatever.

 

[MilwMark]

I owned the Katana 50 and quite liked it. I sold it because it was simply too loud for home. Are you using a dB meter? Even at .5 watt with the master at noon you are very likely more like 80 dB minimum. But if that works for your environment, great!

I also don’t care that much about tone at home. I’m just what or refining ideas that get implemented in rehearsal or on stage at 95-110 dB where guitar amps shine. Though there too I’m the weirdo that cares a bunch about feel and less about tone.

 

[mexicanyella]

As someone who has yet to plug into one, even briefly, it might be said that I am actually under the Katana.

 

[fred4321]

I know there is a lot of love for the Yamaha THR10, I have one, and been using it the last few years.
But, to me it becomes tiresome.
It doesn't, for me, inspire me to play, its more of a convenience.
One of my friends with a Black-star stack loves it, another who uses the Tonemaster agrees with me.
The Tonemaster friend sold off his Katana 100 (gigs in a cover band) as he found it lacking.
Reckons the Tonemaster walks all over the Katana for the tones he can get. Heard him play with it in the band and it sounds great. Of course he uses a pedal board.
But, horses for courses really.

 

[Brent Hutto]

I owned the Katana 50 and quite liked it. I sold it because it was simply too loud for home. Are you using a dB meter? Even at .5 watt with the master at noon you are very likely more like 80 dB minimum. But if that works for your environment, great!

I also don’t care that much about tone at home. I’m just what or refining ideas that get implemented in rehearsal or on stage at 95-110 dB where guitar amps shine. Though there too I’m the weirdo that cares a bunch about feel and less about tone.

Yes, I have a digital SPL meter that I use religiously every time I sit down to play. I'll spot check it with a familiar tune then turn it off usually but any time I'm fiddling knobs or engaging unusual effects I'll leave it running continuously. It amazing how a distortion pedal or reverb can sound "the same" as my usual loudness but actually be 5dB or so louder.

One of the two amps sits pretty far across the room and partly behind a piano so its Master Volume usually lives right around Noon. The other is closer and unobstructed so the Master runs more like 11:00. But they would be much lower if I used any of the distortion channels or any of the Boost effects on the Katanas.

The most tricky part about aiming for a conversational volume of playing is keeping my pedals from constantly upping the gain. Just about anything with a Volume or Level control has to be turned way down to keep the pedals at unity gain. Otherwise I'd be chasing the lower reaches of the Master Volume on the amps constantly.

 

[Brent Hutto]

I know there is a lot of love for the Yamaha THR10, I have one, and been using it the last few years.
But, to me it becomes tiresome.
It doesn't, for me, inspire me to play, its more of a convenience.
One of my friends with a Black-star stack loves it, another who uses the Tonemaster agrees with me.
The Tonemaster friend sold off his Katana 100 (gigs in a cover band) as he found it lacking.
Reckons the Tonemaster walks all over the Katana for the tones he can get. Heard him play with it in the band and it sounds great. Of course he uses a pedal board.
But, horses for courses really.

Assuming he likes the range of sounds built in to a Deluxe Reverb (or whichever Tonemaster) then it's not surprising. That's a fairly expensive amp compared the Katana.

Not that more expensive guarantees anything. I've played through a real (reissue) Deluxe Reverb and the Tonemaster equivalent. I thought they sounded exactly the same as each other but I struggled to find a sound I liked in either one. The "vibrato" and reverb I thought were awful on both (not that I use the Katana's trem or 'verb) either.

 

[IowaTeleGuy]

I have a Fender GTX50 and I love it. Plethora of tone options (overwhelmingly so), footswitch works well, and XLR output makes it easy to integrate with the PA system at church. Headphone quality is good which I use every day so as not to annoy the wife any more than I already do. It's also light enough that I don't complain about lugging it around.

 

[T Prior]

I bought a used K 50- I have several amps for gigs , Dr Z Maz 38, Blues jr, Hot Rod Deville, Carvin Nomad to name a few... I play 1 or 2 small room gigs every month so a small amp with reasonable sound is a requirement. I thought I would try the K50 on the small gig as in the store I was mildly impressed.

I spent way too much time with the programmed stuff, it was a waste of time so I went back old school- I went back to what I know I like , my small pedal board thru the amp in the CLEAN mode and the 50 watt setting. My small pedal board is a Dual Wampler Paisley pedal , a NUX Atlantic Reverb/Delay , A mini Tremelo and a mini tuner, thats is. Sometimes I will use the K50 reverb but nothing else. I use this same simple pedal setup in a small BOSS modified 3 pedal board case , for any amp I use. It's a constant. I pretty much have the same tones for whichever amp I may use.

Here's what I know, for me, my particular setup with the K 50 is fine and sounds good.. I do not like or use any of the selector switch settings other than the CLEAN mode and 50 watt setting. I notice a big difference in overall tone using the .5 and 25 watt mode, It sounds like a totally different amp , very lacking. Also keep in mind that the front end gain/volume will effect overall tone as well. I've never used the Headphones out so I can't comment on that.

I use the K50, ( as stated above) I like it fine but I treat it like a typical 50 watt amp, I ignore all that stuff thats included behind the scenes. My band mates think it sounds good the manner in which I use it. I could use the Blues Jr and have, but the K50 to me is a bit cleaner for my purposes in the smaller rooms. With the Wampler Dual OD Ped, I have choices , Clean ( NO OD ) , OD 1 and OD 2. The K50 works for me in this scenario , I don't bother with any of the ON BOARD programming as none of it would match what I already have ! Heck , I paid more for the DUAL Wampler Pedal than I did for the amp ! LOL -The K50 is just a tool for me .

 

[Happy Enchilada]

Yep, my first thought when I read the original post was Blues Cube Hot.

^^^^This and if you want more power, the Blues Cube Stage.
I have the Stage - 60 LOUD Watts when you need 'em, or you can dial it down to "bedroom" volume and not lose anything as far as tone, sound quality, etc. Seriously.
Delivers Fender-esque tone, along with useful OD and reverb.
Sold my other amps, this one's THE ONE for me.
Weighs +- 20 lbs. Easy to transport, and no tube fragility issues.
Got mine gently used @ Reverb for $450.