John Backlund
Doctor of Teleocity
I won't eat bloody meat of any kind, it repulses me. It has to be cooked through or nothing. I eat very little beef anyway, so it's seldom an issue.
Order a burger medium well to well done, then you get red and pink
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Drubbing
Friend of Leo's
Ideal for steaks. But unsafe in burgers, due to the presence of e.coli in uncooked mince, which can be passed on through processing and mincers etc. Pink mince is safe at 160 def f, but how many burger joints are temp checking that? A cooked through burger tastes great if the beef is good to begin with. Can't polish a you know what... Pink burgers can taste crap too.
I love raw sirloin and eat too much I'm sure. It's always got red juice running all over but I don't think of it as blood...more like au jus.
Drubbing
Friend of Leo's
Processing is the risk, even in the restaurant if grinders are not cleaned properly and handling practices are poor. If restaurants buy from suppliers with good and verifiable safe practices and certified quality systems, the risks are minimal, and pink burgers can be quite safe. If not and processing practices are sloppy, they aren't. That isn't a subjective thing.
What I did was nicely tell the server it wasn't cooked all the way after realizing there was nothing but red and pink inside, ate the fries, took 3 sips of the Coke, asked nicely for the check, it was 13 or 14 bucks, left a 20.
The server offered to send it back, but I declined politely and did not make any fuss about it whatsoever.
If I had been the server, I would have taken it off the bill.
The server didn't. Which means they don't understand customer service, the communication between staff and cooks is likely poor (and/or) the cook is not qualified to be in the kitchen.
I won't eat there again, because the simplest and most basic sanitary thing to prevent illness was not done.
This was my first time in this semi-fancy place. I don't eat out but about once or twice a year, one because I can't afford it, and secondly because if I ask for a plain burger with no garden no nothing, nothing on the side, I get garden, mayo, yuck.
It is actually my belief that many people who work at restaurants derive great satisfaction by sadistically doing the opposite of what you ask, simply because they resent being there and you being there in the first place.
I can't risk eating what I got, or eating what might be on it if sent back.
If you cannot trust a cook to keep you from getting food poisoning, you can bet you can trust him to do something very nasty to your food if it is sent back.
I was in the place at a lull during lunchtime, with only one or two other folks eating there. It is usually packed, I have seen as I passed by it on the street.
I find it distasteful to even bring this up as a thread because it implies a sense of entitlement on my part.
I already seem like my worst nightmare of smug-nozzle at this point, a Yelp reviewer!
Then I walked over to the grocery store and got two slices of pizza, which ended up way over cooked because it had been sitting for hours under the lamp. I still ate it, even though the crust was hard as a rock.
So about $25 for a good lesson, but I'm not sure what the lesson was, except to not expect anything. But I don't really expect anything to be "just so" etc.
I just don't want to get sick.
I think I'm mostly disappointed in myself because I know better than to eat at restaurants. I know what goes on in the back and I saw it in numerous places from fine dining to Joe Schmo.
The server offered to send it back, but I declined politely and did not make any fuss about it whatsoever.
If I had been the server, I would have taken it off the bill.
The server didn't. Which means they don't understand customer service, the communication between staff and cooks is likely poor (and/or) the cook is not qualified to be in the kitchen.
I won't eat there again, because the simplest and most basic sanitary thing to prevent illness was not done.
This was my first time in this semi-fancy place. I don't eat out but about once or twice a year, one because I can't afford it, and secondly because if I ask for a plain burger with no garden no nothing, nothing on the side, I get garden, mayo, yuck.
It is actually my belief that many people who work at restaurants derive great satisfaction by sadistically doing the opposite of what you ask, simply because they resent being there and you being there in the first place.
I can't risk eating what I got, or eating what might be on it if sent back.
If you cannot trust a cook to keep you from getting food poisoning, you can bet you can trust him to do something very nasty to your food if it is sent back.
I was in the place at a lull during lunchtime, with only one or two other folks eating there. It is usually packed, I have seen as I passed by it on the street.
I find it distasteful to even bring this up as a thread because it implies a sense of entitlement on my part.
I already seem like my worst nightmare of smug-nozzle at this point, a Yelp reviewer!
Then I walked over to the grocery store and got two slices of pizza, which ended up way over cooked because it had been sitting for hours under the lamp. I still ate it, even though the crust was hard as a rock.
So about $25 for a good lesson, but I'm not sure what the lesson was, except to not expect anything. But I don't really expect anything to be "just so" etc.
I just don't want to get sick.
I think I'm mostly disappointed in myself because I know better than to eat at restaurants. I know what goes on in the back and I saw it in numerous places from fine dining to Joe Schmo.
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Good grief man, the O.P. just didn't like the way his hamburger was cooked, he wasn't looking for a sex change!
Never insult a sushi chef -- those knives are that sharp!
Drubbing
Friend of Leo's
No logic here. Incompetence doesn't mean they're also malevolent. Only in the US do you see this paranoia about militant food preparation.
Sadism is not necessarily incompetence, neither is sociopathy. Many people would agree that raw and undercooked ground beef can make you very sick, including a cook. So it is on purpose if it comes to you like that, how hard is it to cook the red out of a burger? A child could do it.
And logic is overrated. I just wanted a cooked burger, I didn't get it, I didn't eat it, that's the logic.
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Drubbing
Friend of Leo's
Time and pressure to get food out and turn tables over. How often do they not bother to check or simply mix orders up?
If you prefer to see it as sociopathic, you'd best not eat out anywhere, as clearly they're all out to get you.
If you prefer to see it as sociopathic, you'd best not eat out anywhere, as clearly they're all out to get you.
2 or 3 other people eating, more than one cook, they weren't rushing to get food out.
I agree that even me complaining in this thread is being a lil beach but my point is that a restaurant's first priority should be to not kill you.
If they aren't doing the first priority, it's on purpose.
Even I can cut down the middle of a burger (I say to a cook) and see if it's red. If so, cook more....until it no longer will KILL me duhhhhh
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Can Eating Raw Beef Make You Sick?
By Erika Henritz Jan 09, 2017
While meat-loving foodies may swoon for steak tartare or yukhoe, eating raw beef dishes like these or even rare cooked beef can potentially make you very sick. Food poisoning can occur if the raw or undercooked beef is contaminated with a disease-causing organism. Cooking beef steaks or roasts to an internal temperature of 145 F followed by resting the meat for 3 minutes before eating kills most of these germs. Ground beef must be cooked to an internal temperature of 160 F.
E. Coli Food Poisoning
The bacterial group Escherichia coli (E. coli) includes hundreds of strains. Several strains normally inhabit the intestines of cattle and humans, and most are harmless. However, a few E. coli strains found in cattle can cause food poisoning in humans if the meat is accidentally contaminated. E. coli O157:H7 is the most concerning strain responsible for human food poisoning. This and other disease-causing E. coli strains can cause food poisoning in people who eat raw or undercooked beef.
Symptoms typically develop 3 to 5 days after eating the contaminated food, with abdominal pain and watery diarrhea predominating. Fever is usually absent. Most people recover in 7 to 10 days. However, 5 to 10 percent of people with E. coli O157:H7 develop a potentially life-threatening complication known as hemolytic uremic syndrome. The condition occurs when bacterial toxins trigger destruction of circulating red blood cells and sudden kidney failure.
Salmonellosis
Eating raw or undercooked beef can lead to salmonellosis, an infection caused by Salmonella bacteria. The bacteria can inhabit the digestive tract of cattle without causing illness in the animals. Fever, abdominal cramps and watery diarrhea typically occur 12 to 72 hours after ingesting Salmonella-contaminated food. Symptoms usually persist for 4 to 7 days, although normal bowel habits may not return for several months in some people.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports that up to 8 percent of people with Salmonella food poisoning develop invasive disease, in which the bacteria spreads from the intestines to other parts of the body, such as the bloodstream, joints or bones. Invasive salmonellosis can be life-threatening.
Campylobacteriosis
Campylobacter bacteria commonly inhabits the digestive tract of cattle and poultry, and can contaminate the meat and lead to food poisoning unless properly cooked. Most cases of Campylobacter food poisoning, known as campylobacteriosis, are caused by Campylobacter jejuni. Symptoms typically begin 2 to 4 days after ingesting the bacteria and include abdominal cramps, diarrhea and fever. Nausea and vomiting may also occur. Most people recover within 7 to 10 days.
Campylobacter can spread to the bloodstream, especially in people with a weakened immune system. This development can be potentially life-threatening. CDC reports that approximately 1 out of every 1,000 people develop a condition called Guillain-Barre syndrome in the weeks following a bout of campylobacteriosis. Guillain-Barre syndrome causes temporary paralysis, which can persist for several weeks to months.
Listeriosis
The bacteria Listeria monocytogenes is found in cattle, poultry and the soil. Eating raw or undercooked beef is a potential source of Listeria infection. In healthy adults who have not reached their senior years, ingestion of a relatively large amount of Listeria bacteria can lead to fever, watery diarrhea, nausea, headache and body aches within 24 hours. Symptoms in these people usually improve in a few days. However, certain groups are at high risk for invasive disease, or listeriosis. High-risk groups include pregnant women, newborns, adults older than 65, and people with a weakened or suppressed immune system.
Flu-like symptoms typically occur in pregnant women with listeriosis, which can lead to miscarriage, preterm delivery, stillbirth or infection of the baby. Other high-risk groups who develop listeriosis can exhibit a variety of symptoms, depending on the area of the body infected with the bacteria. Invasion of the bloodstream and nervous system are particularly common and can be life-threatening. Although uncommon, even people not in a high-risk group sometime develop listeriosis.
Other Foodborne Infections
Other bacteria can potentially contaminate beef and cause food poisoning if the meat is eaten raw. Examples include Shigella and Staphylococcus aureus. Viruses, such as the hepatitis A virus and norovirus, can also be contracted from contaminated, raw meat. Eating undercooked or raw beef also poses a risk for parasitic infections, such as beef tapeworm and giardiasis. Parasitic infections are a greater risk when eating raw beef in developing countries that may have inconsistent or substandard food-quality standards or sanitation.
Related: Digestive Illness and Beef Consumption
Warnings and Precautions
Eating raw beef poses potentially serious health risks, particularly for young children, pregnant women, seniors and people with a chronic illness or weakened immune system -- such as those with HIV/AIDS or being treated for cancer, and organ transplant recipients. However, even otherwise healthy people can become severely ill from food poisoning. While most people recover from food poisoning, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that approximately 2,600 Americans die of foodborne illnesses each year.
If you decide to eat raw beef, seek immediate medical care if you develop any signs or symptoms of a foodborne illness.
Reviewed and revised by: Tina M. St. John, M.D.
By Erika Henritz Jan 09, 2017
While meat-loving foodies may swoon for steak tartare or yukhoe, eating raw beef dishes like these or even rare cooked beef can potentially make you very sick. Food poisoning can occur if the raw or undercooked beef is contaminated with a disease-causing organism. Cooking beef steaks or roasts to an internal temperature of 145 F followed by resting the meat for 3 minutes before eating kills most of these germs. Ground beef must be cooked to an internal temperature of 160 F.
E. Coli Food Poisoning
The bacterial group Escherichia coli (E. coli) includes hundreds of strains. Several strains normally inhabit the intestines of cattle and humans, and most are harmless. However, a few E. coli strains found in cattle can cause food poisoning in humans if the meat is accidentally contaminated. E. coli O157:H7 is the most concerning strain responsible for human food poisoning. This and other disease-causing E. coli strains can cause food poisoning in people who eat raw or undercooked beef.
Symptoms typically develop 3 to 5 days after eating the contaminated food, with abdominal pain and watery diarrhea predominating. Fever is usually absent. Most people recover in 7 to 10 days. However, 5 to 10 percent of people with E. coli O157:H7 develop a potentially life-threatening complication known as hemolytic uremic syndrome. The condition occurs when bacterial toxins trigger destruction of circulating red blood cells and sudden kidney failure.
Salmonellosis
Eating raw or undercooked beef can lead to salmonellosis, an infection caused by Salmonella bacteria. The bacteria can inhabit the digestive tract of cattle without causing illness in the animals. Fever, abdominal cramps and watery diarrhea typically occur 12 to 72 hours after ingesting Salmonella-contaminated food. Symptoms usually persist for 4 to 7 days, although normal bowel habits may not return for several months in some people.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports that up to 8 percent of people with Salmonella food poisoning develop invasive disease, in which the bacteria spreads from the intestines to other parts of the body, such as the bloodstream, joints or bones. Invasive salmonellosis can be life-threatening.
Campylobacteriosis
Campylobacter bacteria commonly inhabits the digestive tract of cattle and poultry, and can contaminate the meat and lead to food poisoning unless properly cooked. Most cases of Campylobacter food poisoning, known as campylobacteriosis, are caused by Campylobacter jejuni. Symptoms typically begin 2 to 4 days after ingesting the bacteria and include abdominal cramps, diarrhea and fever. Nausea and vomiting may also occur. Most people recover within 7 to 10 days.
Campylobacter can spread to the bloodstream, especially in people with a weakened immune system. This development can be potentially life-threatening. CDC reports that approximately 1 out of every 1,000 people develop a condition called Guillain-Barre syndrome in the weeks following a bout of campylobacteriosis. Guillain-Barre syndrome causes temporary paralysis, which can persist for several weeks to months.
Listeriosis
The bacteria Listeria monocytogenes is found in cattle, poultry and the soil. Eating raw or undercooked beef is a potential source of Listeria infection. In healthy adults who have not reached their senior years, ingestion of a relatively large amount of Listeria bacteria can lead to fever, watery diarrhea, nausea, headache and body aches within 24 hours. Symptoms in these people usually improve in a few days. However, certain groups are at high risk for invasive disease, or listeriosis. High-risk groups include pregnant women, newborns, adults older than 65, and people with a weakened or suppressed immune system.
Flu-like symptoms typically occur in pregnant women with listeriosis, which can lead to miscarriage, preterm delivery, stillbirth or infection of the baby. Other high-risk groups who develop listeriosis can exhibit a variety of symptoms, depending on the area of the body infected with the bacteria. Invasion of the bloodstream and nervous system are particularly common and can be life-threatening. Although uncommon, even people not in a high-risk group sometime develop listeriosis.
Other Foodborne Infections
Other bacteria can potentially contaminate beef and cause food poisoning if the meat is eaten raw. Examples include Shigella and Staphylococcus aureus. Viruses, such as the hepatitis A virus and norovirus, can also be contracted from contaminated, raw meat. Eating undercooked or raw beef also poses a risk for parasitic infections, such as beef tapeworm and giardiasis. Parasitic infections are a greater risk when eating raw beef in developing countries that may have inconsistent or substandard food-quality standards or sanitation.
Related: Digestive Illness and Beef Consumption
Warnings and Precautions
Eating raw beef poses potentially serious health risks, particularly for young children, pregnant women, seniors and people with a chronic illness or weakened immune system -- such as those with HIV/AIDS or being treated for cancer, and organ transplant recipients. However, even otherwise healthy people can become severely ill from food poisoning. While most people recover from food poisoning, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that approximately 2,600 Americans die of foodborne illnesses each year.
If you decide to eat raw beef, seek immediate medical care if you develop any signs or symptoms of a foodborne illness.
Reviewed and revised by: Tina M. St. John, M.D.
Is it possible to have a red burger that cannot make a person sick, say if it achieved the correct temp but still looked red? I personally don't trust red, so I ask anyone who has cooking experience.
I don't think it's unreasonable to be concerned if ground beef does not seem adequately cooked. I know there are guys here that don't think it's a big deal, but how can a chef let a dish go if it has the potential to kill?
I mean, even if a customer ordered it so, isn't it an ethical duty to not let it go out if it might cause food poisoning?
Might be a good time for me to lose 20 brown and red pounds.
I don't think it's unreasonable to be concerned if ground beef does not seem adequately cooked. I know there are guys here that don't think it's a big deal, but how can a chef let a dish go if it has the potential to kill?
I mean, even if a customer ordered it so, isn't it an ethical duty to not let it go out if it might cause food poisoning?
Might be a good time for me to lose 20 brown and red pounds.
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1293
Doctor of Teleocity
- Joined
- May 18, 2006
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A properly cooked burger is still red at 160F. It's also possible for a burger at 135F to be brown all the way through. That's why you use a thermometer.
For starters I tend to choose carefully where I will order a burger. If the place makes what I call good old fashioned "bar burgers" they're gonna be skinny and fairly juicy anyway since it doesn't take long to cook one. I tend to cook mine like that at home as well.
If the burgers are thick 1/3lb or 1/2lb ones and they won't serve it medium with some pink and still juicy then I won't order a burger there period and I will ask the server that before I order. Some will cook to order and some won't but I won't eat overcooked lifeless burger.
To be honest an under cooked grilled chicken breast causes me more concern than a pink hamburger and folks order those all the time without even thinking twice.
If the burgers are thick 1/3lb or 1/2lb ones and they won't serve it medium with some pink and still juicy then I won't order a burger there period and I will ask the server that before I order. Some will cook to order and some won't but I won't eat overcooked lifeless burger.
To be honest an under cooked grilled chicken breast causes me more concern than a pink hamburger and folks order those all the time without even thinking twice.
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Drubbing
Friend of Leo's
Some people are dumber'n a hammer.
I work food service, own a restaurant and am ServeSafe certified and and Proctor who can administer ServeSafe Tests . I will not eat any ground beef less than pink or medium. Steak? No problem, get it red. But guys and gals there are lots of bugs heat kills that you don't want running around your gut.
jschroeder
TDPRI Member
You're correct that improper processing or handling can result in unsafe food. That's not unique to meat, red or otherwise.
If you're going to eat out, you should think about whether or not you trust the place you're eating at. Do you have concerns about their food suppliers or preparation methods? Do you know people who have gotten sick after eating there? Do they have a good or bad reputation? If so, don't eat there. At all. If you can't trust that a medium rare burger is not contaminated, how can you trust the vegetables or fruits? The salad you order because you don't trust the meat may have leafy greens contaminated with exactly the same bacteria.
There are only a few places we eat out at. We do trust them, and I have had red and pink burgers without second thoughts. But that's a determination everyone has to make for themselves.
I would bet the toilets in my house are more sanitary than the kitchens of many restaurants, I have probably seen hundreds working in show business and food service when I was young, quite a few were of the higher dollar variety. Scary stuff. It also (at least used to be) one of the jobs a felon can get relatively easy, depending on the place.
