Optimized 5E3P "Proluxe"

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by ThePanda, Jan 3, 2021.

  1. ThePanda

    ThePanda TDPRI Member

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    This might be my first post. I lurk here often for amp tips.

    I stuffed a Champ Micro into a Marshall MG10CD a few months ago and have the itch to make a 5E3 6L6.

    I took robrob's optimized 5E3 and added combined it with the Proluxe build on his site.

    How is this?

    5E3P_Optimized_Layout.png
    Here is one with the Cathode/Fixed Bias Switch Mod
    5E3P_Optimized_Layout_Bias_Switch.png

    For the PT and OT I went with the ones robrob suggested. That may change. When I actually build it, I'll have a 4, 8, 16 ohm switch


    Currently, I am between the Trinity Amp or BootHillAmp kits.

    Thanks!
     
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  2. The Ballzz

    The Ballzz Tele-Afflicted

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    @ThePanda
    First, welcome to the forum and kudos to you for admitting to being a "lurker/peeping Tom!" :p
    Next, I find it odd that so many folks want to increase the output of a 5E3 circuit, by converting to 6L6, fixed bias, etc. In my universe, I find the need to attenuate at least a few dbs on a 5E3 in it's sweet spot! Yeah, I get the whole concept of flubbiness, compression and lack of clean headroom, etc, but I've learned to embrace these characteristics and incorporate them into my playing style and intentionally use them as part of my sound instead of trying to fight them. :D

    I have found that a totally passive, break/make effects loop (just before pin #2 of V2) is a very worthwhile addition. You can either use it for good rack mount style effects (with control of input and output levels), a Master Volume pot or simply providing a great test point for determining which section (pre-amp or power-amp) is breaking up or creating issues. When nothing is plugged in, it electronically disappears! A good physical location for the jacks is right in between V1 & V2.

    Of Course, YMMV,
    Gene
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
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  3. 2L man

    2L man Tele-Meister

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    I like Robs optimized layouts because he places pre amp regulation capacitor closer to tube anode resistors!

    Also I think thats how grounding should be done! Just one signal ground bus which connects to chassis ONLY on input jack. Now there is only one signal ground which begins from a player thru strings, bridge, guitar jack to cable grounding "mesh", thru chassis to mains cable thru building grounding to mother earth :)

    The other chassis connection near mains input which does "earth" connection only mains lead is connected and although it has effect to signal grounding its main purpose is to make amplifier electrically safe. Only exception when two wires are connected to this lug is a transformer which has internal ground cable which many toroidal power transformers have. Amplifier fuse should "burn" if internal current "escapes" to chassis. If it is not enough the building fuse burns or circuit breaker trips and there mains cable earth cable prevents chassis getting dangerous voltage.

    There is also internal circuit where amplifier stages have signal grounds and it begins from transformer center tab (or SS bridge rectifier if non CT transformer is used) which connects to the beginning of the signal ground bus. First there is power tube circuit where runs most current and now its path comes shortest but no current runs on chassis which is large so least amount electrical noise radiates! Then PI and pre amp which most critical the first has longest current path but its current is also smallest but now this smallest current is placed furthest from transformers which are considered noise generators. And then input jack where smallest signal current path meets chassis ground. No layered ground loops!!!

    There is an empty place above where reads B+3 and between ground bus where I recommend to install a poly capacitor which is "faster" than electrolytic and it will improve pre amp voltage regulation. Its voltage value needs to match pre amp voltage but capacitance does not matter but something 100nF to 1uF is preferable.
     
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  4. King Fan

    King Fan Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Nice, and welcome on board. I like your DIYLC skills.

    A simple safety 'optimization' is a DPST hot/neutral switch (UL/EU standard nowadays). I was able to fit the big ol' Carling in my 5G9, with its big PT, so I *think* one might fit in a 5E3 even with the big Allen PT.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
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  5. ThePanda

    ThePanda TDPRI Member

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    Thanks!
    I ultimately settled on the 5E3 for that reason (flubbiness, lack of headroom, etc). I was going back and forth between a Marshall 18W, 5F6 2x12, and the 5E3. Ultimately, the size and character.

    The problem is falling into a DEEP rabbit hole of mods and possibilities... My idea of going with the 5E3P Cathode Bias is to maybe have the best of both worlds and swap in 6V6's, flip the switch to cathode bias and roll with the 'stock' 5E3 sound.

    I was thinking about the Send/Receive thing too! That sounds awesome. I will make a note of the location when I DIYLC my project with all the mods.
     
  6. ThePanda

    ThePanda TDPRI Member

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    Holy smokes, I hadn't considered all of this!

    Would the 100nF-1uF poly cap go from the 22K B+3 side of the resistor to the ground bus?
     
  7. ThePanda

    ThePanda TDPRI Member

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    Thanks! DIYLC seems pretty easy to use. Most of the diagram is robrob's. I just added some modifications to it.

    I had to google DPST hot/neutral switch. I found the other thread from July last year. Is the benefit to this to get less high voltage in case something goes wrong and you get shocked?
     
  8. King Fan

    King Fan Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Basically, it makes sure your amp is off no matter how the wall socket is wired (surprisingly many are wrong) or how many weird power faults occur in the amp. Side benefit is it gives you a great tie point for the neutral; no more sweating out a bomber-but-neat lineman's splice.
     
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  9. ThePanda

    ThePanda TDPRI Member

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    Ah! Ok that makes sense.

    I found this on your other [​IMG]

    Basically in the down position the amp is "off" and then when up it completes the connection and is "on", right?
     
  10. 2L man

    2L man Tele-Meister

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    https://www.tdpri.com/threads/harvard-5f10-5e3-deluxe-hybrid-spawn.807878/

    Look this link to Harvalux thread two years back! It has simplest circuit I have seen to have both cathode and fixed bias using only one switch. Designer did plan to use double also to switch feedback for Harward style fixed bias and no FB for Deluxe but I would use two individual switches and get possibly four bit different power stages? Unfortunately there is no continuity how it did finish :(
     
  11. 2L man

    2L man Tele-Meister

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    Yes! Actually best place for poly is next to right electrolytic so it delivers current straight to pre amp tube anoce resistors.

    Sometimes on tube amps there is no immediate clear positive effect but I use them whenever there is room for them. I also install filter poly capacitors to mains circuit and if I use silicon rectifier I install them parallel with diodes. I have built lots of Operation Amp circuits and there they are essential. They are cheap and easy to install same time I build. If switch use cause "snap noise" it could be lessened adding poly capacitor(s) and resistor which gives very small pre current. On modern buildings there are lots of switching power supplys around which radiate electro magnetic fields which guitar microphone picks. Switching power supplys can also radiate back to mains and they can make tube amps noisier from long distance.
     
  12. King Fan

    King Fan Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Basically it's an on-off switch for both hot and neutral. Use your continuity tester to make sure which way the switch connects. Done right, "ON" closes both circuits; the other way breaks both. Carling makes these in about 25 variants -- you want the ON-(none)-OFF version with only 4, not 6, solder lugs.

    Here's a diagram -- obviously you can wire either primary to hot. Just make sure (your meter again) you don't have it wired so 'ON' connects hot to neutral and one primary to the other. The switch schematic here shows the right connections. I mounted and wired it so the bat points to ON when closed *and* so the end without lugs sits up near the chassis rim where fingers visit.

    upload_2021-1-4_17-35-39.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2021
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  13. ThePanda

    ThePanda TDPRI Member

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    Thanks. I didn't even know about this. This will be added to my build.
     
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