OPEN OR CLOSED BACK TUNERS.

[Kandinskyesque]

There a good bit of backlash on the Grover tuners in my recently acquired Breedlove acoustic, so I'm going to buy some new ones.
From what I've read over the past week, Graphtech Ratio tuners seem to be good and I'm thinking of buying a set.

Now I'm stymied with the choice of open or closed back.
What are the advantages/disadvantages of the two types?

 

[elihu]

Waverly tuners are among the best you can buy and they’re open back. So I’m not sure the question should be open vs closed. Maybe it should be how much quality are you willing to pay for?

 

[Buckocaster51]

Grover makes a set of open backs that are good and affordable

Grover 18:1 Sta-Tite (97-18 Series) 3+3 Tuners - StewMac

Grover's refinement of a vintage tuner design has 18:1 gearing. For solid pegheads.

www.stewmac.com

I have used them. They are more than decent

 

[dreamingtele]

I like the look of open back tuners on my J-45 copy Sigma acoustic.. they feel light as well.. they're Grovers

 

[kuch]

I guess I've never questioned the open back tuners on any of my Martins because I've never had any problems with them.

Are you having issues with your tuners or just want to change them out?
All the Grovers I had on Gibsons never gave me any problems either.

 

[Chiogtr4x]

My Blueridge ( OM-28 style) has gold Gotoh open tuners (basically economy/ Waverly-style)

And my Martin ( which had Grovers, but a few wore out 10 years ago), now has Martin-branded PING tuners ( bought on CL, from a then new, D-16GT- the guy wanted Waverleys...) which are closed back, but lighter and smaller than Grovers. I love these!

 

[Kandinskyesque]

I guess I've never questioned the open back tuners on any of my Martins because I've never had any problems with them.

Are you having issues with your tuners or just want to change them out?
All the Grovers I had on Gibsons never gave me any problems either.

Some issues with a couple of them, even after restringing there's a lot of play/backlash on the G and D.
I usually end up swapping out tuners and the small buttons just don't feel right, they're the same size as my 12 String tuner buttons.

I've had a look at the Waverleys but UK prices are awful and by the time the Stewmac import and shipping charges are paid it's another 50% on the cost.

I've not had open back tuners on a solid headstock since my Kay jumbo in the 70s/80s, so I'm curious as to whether there's much of a difference other than weight.

 

[Dukex]

I have both and both are fine. The maker is more important than the style IMO.

I suggest you do further research and include Gotoh and Shaller.

 

[Freeman Keller]

Open back Waverlys on anything with a vintage look and feel, enclosed Kluson or Grovers on more modern guitars. If I was putting something on a Breedlove in would be enclosed, probably Grovers. They are fine tuners for the price. If I'm replacing tuners a lot depends on the type of bushing (press or screw in) and bushing size. I also consider the screws but they never match.

I think the whole idea of tuners with different ratios is kind of silly,

 

[Charlie Bernstein]

They both work fine, and the audience can't see the backs of your tuners, anyway. Not something to — uh — fret about.

 

[Boreas]

Quality matters MUCH more than style. Open-back are easier to maintain, but who bothers? If you fall into the laissez-faire category, you may want to go with sealed tuners.

 

[Esquire Jones]

The Wav’s are pretty tough to beat. Especially on a Martin type guitar.

Some people say that the lighter weight compared to, say, heavy Grover’s makes a tonal difference.

I do think that the lighter tuners can help add a “snappier” tone.

And the guitar will feel less neck heavy.

 

[teletimetx]

Open/closed may have little to do with function; and I’m not convinced that a set with variable ratios is much more than a gimmick.

On strictly a quantitative basis, higher ratio tuners will provide the potential for finer tuning. For example, with a set of 18:1 tuners, the difference in pitch change for corresponding mechanical movement is a smaller than a 14:1 set.

Will it make a real difference for your playing enjoyment? I have no idea.

 

[toomuchfun]

I'd be more interested in a set that you don't have to drill new holes than the type. It's real hard to cover up a hole showing through in the front of the headstock.

 

[Red Ryder]

Plain or peanut

 

[StoneH]

I have both open and closed back Grovers on my Martins and Yairis, but the closed back tuners on my new Taylor feel the best (maybe because they are not 45 years old). Apparently Taylor and Grover are made by Ping.

 

[58Bassman]

There a good bit of backlash on the Grover tuners in my recently acquired Breedlove acoustic, so I'm going to buy some new ones.
From what I've read over the past week, Graphtech Ratio tuners seem to be good and I'm thinking of buying a set.

Now I'm stymied with the choice of open or closed back.
What are the advantages/disadvantages of the two types?

I have never really been a fan of geared tuners- the lash always bothered me and it's impossible to completely eliminate it without gear wear. The Strat Plus I had came with LSR tuners, which use a screw to increase/decrease tension and the thread is so fine that it's impossible for a guitar string to pull so hard that it would loosen.

FF to early this year, when I bought a Squire Offset Tele- some of the worst tuners I have EVER used and that comes from someone who worked at a music store in the early-mid '70s, when imported guitars were very common, as well as crappy. I looked for LSR tuners and they were more than I want to spend, so I looked for something nice, not too expensive. I picked the fender locking tuners- I really don't care that they hold the strings with a screw & big knob, but I really wanted less gear lash. They're decent, but not as good as the LSR, which were the best tuners I have EVER used. I also liked the barrel knobs, so I bought some from HipShot.

LSR tuners-

I don't like gears being exposed- the lube can transfer to other things and that means some is lost, it can also be contaminated.

 

[Tricone]

After using closed back grovers, schaller, kluson, and sperzel tuners for years, compared to my vintage 1959 kluson open back 3 plate and in house Mule open back 3 plate for slotted, I much prefer open back.
Last forever,accurate,low maintenance, less parts, light, and I dig the look.

My 1959 Rodebald Hoyer acoustic archtop has the original kluson 3 plate open back tuners and they work great. I use D'Addario ECG25. 012-.052 guage and they tune up and hold great.

These are the same kluson 3 plate open back tuners as on my R.Hoyer.

 

[zombywoof]

My 1920 L3 and 1932 L1 still sport their original three-on-a plate Waverly open gear tuners while my 1942 J50 and Harmony H165 Stella made the same year have bent tab Klusons with the double circular manufacturers stamp on the outside. But by the time you get to the later-1940s, open gear, screw cog Klusons were pretty much found mostly on Kays, Harmonys and the like. Generally though Klusons dating from the 1930s on have a 12:1 ratio.

The only tuners I have replaced with new ones within recent memory was a set of Klusons which adorned my '65 Silvertone 633. In this case I went with individual Grover Sta-Tites. I actually just liked the look of them but the 18:1 ratio is nice.

The best open gear tuners though I have ever run across were those offered by Antique Acoustics. Problem is they are no longer in production which means you have to hunt them down used which is a hard row to hoe. But for years these were the standard for Gibson restoration.

 

[telestratosonic]

There a good bit of backlash on the Grover tuners in my recently acquired Breedlove acoustic, so I'm going to buy some new ones.
From what I've read over the past week, Graphtech Ratio tuners seem to be good and I'm thinking of buying a set.

Now I'm stymied with the choice of open or closed back.
What are the advantages/disadvantages of the two types?

Put a set of Grover Rotomatics on a Squier Telecaster ten years ago. The guitar was used very little and at home. The tuner on the 1st string (high E) started slipping. Couldn't buy just 'one' Rotomatic tuner to replace it so I replaced it with one of the original tuners (which I had kept).

On the other hand, the closed back tuners on my 1994 Seagull S12, which now has just 6 strings, are as good as when I acquired it in 2002.

Were I replacing tuners on one of my acoustics, I'd go with Waverly (or similar high-quality) open back tuners. But that's just me.

EDIT:
Yikes! Just checked the price in USD on Stewmac (stewmac.com).
They range from $160 to $343.