OMG!! Mid/Side for acoustic!!

Discussion in 'Recording In Progress' started by 4pickupguy, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. 4pickupguy

    4pickupguy Poster Extraordinaire

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    7753A55A-6153-4AD3-ADB1-9849E429261B.jpeg Ok, here is one version of my mid/side mic rigs. If I get close enough to this thing, the SM57 sounds pretty good on my acoustic. I ran my internal guitar preamp in a separate channel with the thought of having something I could blend if needed. But, then I tried my internal mic/piezo preamp from my acoustic (swept to about 75% mic) as the mid mic. There was just a bit of phase to correct for because the onboard mic hit the daw a hair sooner and when I did,.. unicorns and rainbows! I put a big plate stereo verb on just the mid track and boy oh boy it sounds really good!
    Mid/Side can be pushed to “hyper stereo” which gets a bit tedious. This however is big, full and beautiful without wearing the listener down.
    Anyone got some more mid/side advice for me to try?
     
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  2. 4pickupguy

    4pickupguy Poster Extraordinaire

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    Oh, here is my acoustic:
    5861C7E4-83A9-4247-8C62-2C514401CC4D.jpeg
     
  3. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

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    Good job. Does the mic have a pickup pattern selection on it?


    What do you have it set at?
     
  4. 4pickupguy

    4pickupguy Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yes, the side mic is set to figure 8 pattern R/(L inverted phase).
     
  5. studio

    studio Poster Extraordinaire

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    When can we hear the results?
     
  6. 4pickupguy

    4pickupguy Poster Extraordinaire

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    I have two songs I am working on. One is a collab with a fellow Tdpri’er that I have waiting for a bass to come in to complete. The other is the acoustic tune (key bass). If things go well, Monday I hope to have both done.
     
  7. Chud

    Chud Poster Extraordinaire

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    Might have to try that. I've gotten a bit stale on my acoustic mic'ing technique, usually just mic'ing up at the sound hole and 12th fret. That sounds like a fairly simple way to get a fatter sound. Will be watching for clips. Good luck!
     
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  8. Geoff738

    Geoff738 Poster Extraordinaire

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    You can also try the fig8 mic over your right shoulder pointed roughly down towards the bridge, assuming right handed.

    Cheers,
    Geoff
     
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  9. Martin R

    Martin R Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Good to know. We're going to try it with a couple of figure 8 cascade ribbon mics. The plan was to use them in place of a room mic for drums, but now I think I'll try it with acoustic guitar.
     
  10. 4pickupguy

    4pickupguy Poster Extraordinaire

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    You’ll need a boom stand adapter to hold the guitar close to the ribbon mic or your likely to get phase issues.
     
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  11. Martin R

    Martin R Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    We've got a few. I watch CL every day and have a pretty good collection.
     
  12. 4pickupguy

    4pickupguy Poster Extraordinaire

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    I’m taking a break from recording. Hoping to wrap up two projects this weekend. One observation is that this mic in the figure 8 mode picks up EVERYTHING in the house!
    My damn dog scratching himself
    The A/C (I have to cycle it off with my phone between takes)
    My breathing, moving, thinking..
    The washer/dryer on the far side of the house.
    Neighbors lawn mower
    I was being too lazy to record in the vocal booth but I was chased into it by all the noise. The mic is annoyingly sensitive.

    Lol! I really really misread your to post to say you were going to replace your standard mid mics you are using on your drums with an acoustic guitar as sarcasm...! (>_<) Whats bad is I thought it was hilarious:p My reply was based on that... god I feel stupid..
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
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  13. Ben Harmless

    Ben Harmless Friend of Leo's

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    M/S is cool.

    Best tip I can give is if you're using a DAW, automate the level of the sides along with the material in the song - it can really emphasize the feel and accentuate the emotional content of the recording. Stereo is one of the only places where you get to crank up the emotion knob. There are others, but it's a big one.

    That being said, the other tip is to use M/S judiciously. Though M/S is considered to be fully mono-compatible, I PERSONALLY disagree, and I'll tell you why. I used to work in radio, and in that field, stereo is not a given. Many high-end radios are still mono - they only have one speaker. In that scenario, you don't get ANY of the side/stereo field. Even in two-speaker systems, the main radio signal is actually mono, and the stereo is done in a sum-and-difference manner (not dissimilar to M/S itself) using a lower carrier wave (or something that I don't fully understand) and when that weaker signal is disrupted, the playback drops back to mono. If there are important things that are more in the sides than in the middle, they're going to disappear. If you're relying on frequency content that's accentuated by the room, you may hear a much more subdued sound in mono. Not only that, but if you're recording more than one instrument, some may get pretty lost. I learned this to my own detriment when I used a M/S pair to mic a beautiful string quintet for a live radio show, and realized later that four of the musicians probably came out way, way lower in the mix to the audience of floofy NPR listeners (like myself) with expensive, mono, radios (unlike myself). So yeah. M/S means you are taking stereo playback for granted. In a world of earbuds, that's not a dumb thing, but there are still more mono playback situations than you might think. Just know your audience.

    It's worth saying that I don't know anything about HD radio, and some of the above might not apply anymore, but it IS true that there are still a lot of fancy, botique mono radios out there. Lot's of bar/club PAs are run in mono, too, for what it's worth. For me, I usually go with basic XY for stereo acoustic, which also helps because you get less room, and my room isn't great. Or ORTF, which is not as mono-compatible, but I find the tradeoffs worthwhile.
     
  14. KCKC

    KCKC Tele-Afflicted

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    This can be a good set-up!

    I have used it before as part of my testing of different mic set-ups. I'm a total guitar/recording hack and was trying to get a feel for the sound I could get with my low-end mics for strumming and flat picking.

    Flat picking and strumming noodling I did with mid-side set-up using an apex 205 ribbon and a behringer C2, guitar is an alvarez artist series grande auditorium.


     
  15. woodman

    woodman Grand Wazoo @ The Woodshed Gold Supporter

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    This reinforces the old saw "always check your mixes in mono."
     
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