Older Eminence speaker ?

[Wally]

Eminence is legally prohibited from giving full specs for OEM third party speakers, as that is tied to a contract. Not just Eminence, that is a business requirement in general. For speakers like these Tony would give a ballpark power handling based on V/C diameter.
Being a 'Legend' supplied to Peavey and looking at the dust cover and magnet diameter I would put this speaker at 75w - 100w rms, given that it is theoretically a bass speaker. If it was a 10" it would be 75w, replacing the Sheffield 10's Peavey used. I have the Peavey speaker item code sheet covering these and will update on what it actually is. I'm not familiar with any Peavey bass guitar 12" cabs so it might be a pa woofer or full range.

Tony gave me a bit more than just that. I had three 10” Eminence speakers and need one more to go in a MM 4x10 HD130. I had a little Crate cab that had housed a low output solid state amp. I had kept the cab because it is a dove-tail joined pine cab. The speaker was a large magnet…for a little SS amp, but it was an OEM speaker for the amp that came from Eminence. I asked Tony if it would be a good match for efficiency and tones. He told me that yes, it would work well with the three speakers I had…similar efficiency, similar freq range, similar resonant peak. He gave no specifics…just general info About two different OEM 10s. That the speaker out of that little 10 watt Crate SS amp was a a 100 watt speaker!! Lol
Eminence did not make any money directly off of that service that Tony provided that day, but a long time customer was happy.

 

[telemnemonics]

I reached out to Eminence & they just got back to me. It was made for Peavey & it is for guitar. I was considering purchasing it just to try it, but I don't really need it. If I bought it & it didn't work out, it would probably be hard to move locally. Shipping a speaker nowadays is just too cost prohibitive.

The seller wants $30, btw...

Bring an amp and a cable with clips, try the speaker sitting on the floor.
You can at least get an idea of the sound.

 

[Wally]

Bring an amp and a cable with clips, try the speaker sitting on the floor.
You can at least get an idea of the sound.

Or…carry a speaker box with you. Put the speaker in the box for the test…it is better than pure open air.

 

[Bass Butcher]

Tony gave me a bit more than just that. I had three 10” Eminence speakers and need one more to go in a MM 4x10 HD130. I had a little Crate cab that had housed a low output solid state amp. I had kept the cab because it is a dove-tail joined pine cab. The speaker was a large magnet…for a little SS amp, but it was an OEM speaker for the amp that came from Eminence. I asked Tony if it would be a good match for efficiency and tones. He told me that yes, it would work well with the three speakers I had…similar efficiency, similar freq range, similar resonant peak. He gave no specifics…just general info About two different OEM 10s. That the speaker out of that little 10 watt Crate SS amp was a a 100 watt speaker!! Lol
Eminence did not make any money directly off of that service that Tony provided that day, but a long time customer was happy.

That is the type of information he could and would give. He just wouldn't provide detailed design specs, even for speakers like that that had no design modifications from Eminence stock. That information is proprietary to the customer. None of the Fender 'Special Design' speakers had special designs, they were all manufacturer stock models. Here's some eye candy for you, someone repaired the cone tears in these 1968 Bassman 12's with a caulking gun and window caulking back in the 70's or 80's, lol I've used them for guitar and bass but don't have a twin to put them in atm...

 

[Supertwang]

Bring an amp and a cable with clips, try the speaker sitting on the floor.
You can at least get an idea of the sound.

This. But set the speaker in a cardboard box with the top open when you try it so it’s just not hanging in open air

 

[Neptical]

I think I'm one of the only FEW who absolutely love the stock Fender Special Designs (Eminence - 67) in my Fender SS.
Fat, Punchy and Sparkling on the top. Super clean and quite efficient.

 

[Wally]

@Bass Butcher, those 12T6 speakers are great for a TR or a Pro Reverb even since they are low efficiency. They will cut the volume in half compared to say a 100db speaker. Those are well worth a recone, imho.

 

[telemnemonics]

@Bass Butcher, those 12T6 speakers are great for a TR or a Pro Reverb even since they are low efficiency. They will cut the volume in half compared to say a 100db speaker. Those are well worth a recone, imho.

I have quite a few speakers in need of a recone, but only either vintage or big mag alnico seem worth it given the huge range of great new speakers that ship free.

If I lived near a great recone shop it would be different since two shipping fees around $20 each way kills the value of average speakers.

I have a few excellent recones done by Orange County, one being an alnico EV SRO that got one of the last of the EV recone kits and is right on.
Another is a nice '59 P12N with a non vintage cone that sounds fine but I have no original to compare.
I have a new Blue and an early '60s gray frame Vox Celestion alnico, the old one finally expired and did not sound like a new blue due to aging.
Will probably get that reconed, along with some Altec 417s.

 

[Bass Butcher]

This. But set the speaker in a cardboard box with the top open when you try it so it’s just not hanging in open air

You don't need to box a speaker to test if the v/c is good at low volume. At higher volumes it is a good idea to mount it in a cabinet though. A cardboard box has no testing or tone reading benefits as it is going to be completely different than the speaker mounted in a cabinet. That speaker is suitable for open or closed back cabs, it doesn't require any cabinet compression.

 

[Bass Butcher]

@Bass Butcher, those 12T6 speakers are great for a TR or a Pro Reverb even since they are low efficiency. They will cut the volume in half compared to say a 100db speaker. Those are well worth a recone, imho.

You know your stuff. The recone kit is 60 per. I only did the surround because I didn't like the look of the surround/cone seam, even though it wasn't separating. The built up surround makes them even a bit lower efficiency because of the increased mechanical resistance. I've used in open and closed backs for guitar and bass at lower volumes. I'd love to try them cranked with a Fender style two 6bq5 amp

 

[Supertwang]

You don't need to box a speaker to test if the v/c is good at low volume. At higher volumes it is a good idea to mount it in a cabinet though. A cardboard box has no testing or tone reading benefits as it is going to be completely different than the speaker mounted in a cabinet. That speaker is suitable for open or closed back cabs, it doesn't require any cabinet compression.

You don't need to box a speaker to test if the v/c is good at low volume. At higher volumes it is a good idea to mount it in a cabinet though. A cardboard box has no testing or tone reading benefits as it is going to be completely different than the speaker mounted in a cabinet. That speaker is suitable for open or closed back cabs, it doesn't require any cabinet compression.

Yes you don’t “need” the cardboard box but Try it sometime,…you might like it,…just say “maybe”. Setting a speaker in a cardboard box yields a sound closer to what the speaker will sound like mounted in a cabinet than a speaker hanging out in free-air.

 

[Wally]

Yes you don’t “need” the cardboard box but Try it sometime,…you might like it,…just say “maybe”. Setting a speaker in a cardboard box yields a sound closer to what the speaker will sound like mounted in a cabinet than a speaker hanging out in free-air.

I also have a plastic bucket that is a usable item for testing.
The best box I have is an older Eminence shipp8ng box that had a cardboard insert. The speaker went face down in the box, and this insert had a cutout the fit the circumference of the edge of the basket. The four sides of this insert bolstered the sides of the box and immobilized the speaker since they contacted the lid when the box was shut. If you turn this insert upside down, it makes a ‘front mount’ closed cab for speaker tests.

 

[Supertwang]

I also have a plastic bucket that is a usable item for testing.
The best box I have is an older Eminence shipp8ng box that had a cardboard insert. The speaker went face down in the box, and this insert had a cutout the fit the circumference of the edge of the basket. The four sides of this insert bolstered the sides of the box and immobilized the speaker since they contacted the lid when the box was shut. If you turn this insert upside down, it makes a ‘front mount’ closed cab for speaker tests.

I have some of those Eminence boxes but I always re-use them to store other drivers. I sometimes use an old Ballantine’s Scotch wood shipping crate that sounds good enough that I’ve listened to a speaker in it for quite some time before I tired of that sounds.

 

[Musekatcher]

Hard to say. If it's a bass speaker it may be a bit warm on the top end. But some aren't also.
It looks a lot like the Emi speakers my Red Knob Twin had in it, which I loved. Dust cap, Ribs, about the same magnet size.

BTW, I've looked at these and the Swamp Thang, and think they are the same speakers. I bet a lot of folks dump these for cheap, not knowing. edit - talking about the stock Eminence in a Red Knob Twin -

 

[Bass Butcher]

Yes you don’t “need” the cardboard box but Try it sometime,…you might like it,…just say “maybe”. Setting a speaker in a cardboard box yields a sound closer to what the speaker will sound like mounted in a cabinet than a speaker hanging out in free-air.

I restore about a dozen mostly vintage speaker cabs a year and have a few dozen raw speakers atm, ranging from 50's and 60's smooth and ribbed cone Jensens to 150w pro touring guitar speakers for guitar. I peaked at about 32 12's spread between a dozen different cabs. Even switching the same speaker(s) between different dimension open or closed back cabinets yields a different sound, which is common knowledge in the business. A cardboard box provides no more tone testing benefit than setting the speaker cone up on a test bench. The only practical reason for doing either would be to test the voice coil for rub with amp power instead of doing it manually. Using a bucket for building a DIY bass rig with a car audio power amp and a computer power supply is old news but can make a half decent lower volume bass amp with the right speaker. Not like there's any shortage of empty combo chassis out there for dirt cheap for using for testing purposes...

 

[Bass Butcher]

BTW, I've looked at these and the Swamp Thang, and think they are the same speakers. I bet a lot of folks dump these for cheap, not knowing. edit - talking about the stock Eminence in a Red Knob Twin -

Swamp Thangs have different sound characteristics than the speakers in the 100w twins but a lot of similar components. I think all generations of the twin were loaded with 100w Legends. The 50 watt ones average 30 - 40 dollars because they are too clean for a lot of guitar player's taste and there are a lot of them out there from people 'upgrading' their smaller Fender combos. The big boys from the twins don't come on the used market as often and they rock if you need a lot of clean headroom.
Legends make for good bottom speakers for a 412 or vertical 212 speaker salad because they are very clean and well balanced. Even in a horizontal twin mixing one with a compatible Celestion sounds great. I could see them being good for an frfr cab too. I've even used the ones that came in the twin for a bi-amped bass bin in a ported accordion twin cab and liked them for that. Putting Legends underneath compatible power/efficiency Celestions or alnicos in a 412 or a vertical 212 will knock your socks off. Traynor actually put out a 412 guitar cab model with Celestions over Legends in the early 70's.
I loaded the 412 in this pic with first generation 100w G12K-85's on top of a pair of pre evil twin 100w Legends, with a 50w tube head in this pic. Screaming leads with tons of bottom for power chords. I used it with my YBA-3 bass head for guitar too, about 180 watts dimed, lol

 

[Supertwang]

I restore about a dozen mostly vintage speaker cabs a year and have a few dozen raw speakers atm, ranging from 50's and 60's smooth and ribbed cone Jensens to 150w pro touring guitar speakers for guitar. I peaked at about 32 12's spread between a dozen different cabs. Even switching the same speaker(s) between different dimension open or closed back cabinets yields a different sound, which is common knowledge in the business. A cardboard box provides no more tone testing benefit than setting the speaker cone up on a test bench. The only practical reason for doing either would be to test the voice coil for rub with amp power instead of doing it manually. Using a bucket for building a DIY bass rig with a car audio power amp and a computer power supply is old news but can make a half decent lower volume bass amp with the right speaker. Not like there's any shortage of empty combo chassis out there for dirt cheap for using for testing purposes...
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Well I guess that makes you the expert on the subject, doesn’t it?? I hope your professional ego doesn’t get bruised if I continue to use a box to set speakers in during testing. I find, in my strictly amateur opinion, that a box or bucket or crate enhances my experience. There’s no need to install a speaker for a quick test,…I just alligator clip on my test lead and set the speaker inside of something (anything really)

 

[Bass Butcher]

Well I guess that makes you the expert on the subject, doesn’t it?? I hope your professional ego doesn’t get bruised if I continue to use a box to set speakers in during testing. I find, in my strictly amateur opinion, that a box or bucket or crate enhances my experience. There’s no need to install a speaker for a quick test,…I just alligator clip on my test lead and set the speaker inside of something (anything really)

My comment was industry standard common knowledge, nothing else. Acoustics is a science, not a religion. Do you think they only used this much pink insulation in this bass reflex pa cab and put it where they did because they ran out of insulation, or did they do it to fine tune the cabinet/speaker combination to dampen some resonance and treble but not more damping than was required to achieve a balanced audible frequency range for the cabinet's intended purpose, after constructing the cabinet to the correct Thiele and Small dimensions for the speaker? You could put chin straps on your speaker and wear it like a hat as far as anyone would care, it doesn't change the fact that "testing" a speaker in a carboard box serves no practical purpose whatsoever. Simple physics.

 

[Bass Butcher]

I think I'm one of the only FEW who absolutely love the stock Fender Special Designs (Eminence - 67) in my Fender SS.
Fat, Punchy and Sparkling on the top. Super clean and quite efficient.

That does make you a rarity and I agree with you 100%. Plus Legends are very consistent tonally across their entire power rating options and across a few decades of production. I think they make for good FRFR guitar speakers too but the majority of people now jumping on the FRFR bandwagon will turn their noses up at them because they aren't a new design or advertised as FRFR.
I'm also a fan of the earlier square magnet Eminence speakers for guitar and bass.

 

[Musekatcher]

Swamp Thangs have different sound characteristics than the speakers in the 100w twins but a lot of similar components. I think all generations of the twin were loaded with 100w Legends.

I looked mine up (RKT), and they were rated at 150w, 2" voice coil, weigh around 12 lb, same as a Swamp Thang, similar doping, similar ribbing and cone and similar dust cap construction, etc. But, i've not checked the TS parameters, so I believe you if you say they sounded differently in a comparison.